Gonzo70 wrote:

Royal Lichter wrote:To me, this brings about an interesting question:

If you go to there more than once, how often do *they* feel that Alinea should be experienced? I don't believe the answer is as many times as possible.

This would be an interesting question for Grant or Nick.

That is a very good question; I am rather curious as to how Grant or Nick would respond.

From what I have read, some frequent diners are more than welcome and receive perks. When Next opened and was a very difficult ticket, there was a statement, IIRC (sorry, no time right now to look for it, and can't remember if it was in an article or Nick's post on the FB page) that priority was given to people who have dined at Alinea at least thirty times (and a parenthetical statement confirming that this group exists), in addition to visiting chefs. There certainly are examples of some repeat customers receiving special treatment, and others who don't. We know that they do research on their customers, so perhaps it comes down to a belief that the "right" people should dine "as many times as possible", and everyone else is interchangeable.

On a separate but related issue, one of my observations with Next is that the nature of the changing menu and season tickets, for those who still participate, creates a large group of repeat customers. I'm pretty sure that at the other restaurants in town where a couple can easily drop $1000 on dinner, after doing that three or four times, they would become a pampered set, and it rarely seems to happen with this group.

...

Gonzo70 wrote:

pepsican wrote:http://i.imgur.com/w7csCzP.jpg

Yes, the current menus is only 13 courses. I say only kind of as a joke, but half the fun and original appeal of this place was the massive tasting menu.

I agree; my best meal in Chicago of 2014 was Grace (which was a ten course dinner) and I had several fantastic five to seven course dinners at Boka and the Lobby that also rank among my favorite meals of the year.

Wow, you sure crammed a lot of dining into just a few days. With almost the full year to go, though, is it not just a tad premature to announce that you've already had your best meal of the year?

Kman wrote:

Gonzo70 wrote:

pepsican wrote:http://i.imgur.com/w7csCzP.jpg

Yes, the current menus is only 13 courses. I say only kind of as a joke, but half the fun and original appeal of this place was the massive tasting menu.

I agree; my best meal in Chicago of 2014 was Grace (which was a ten course dinner) and I had several fantastic five to seven course dinners at Boka and the Lobby that also rank among my favorite meals of the year.

Wow, you sure crammed a lot of dining into just a few days. With almost the full year to go, though, is it not just a tad premature to announce that you've already had your best meal of the year?

lol. Nice catch there!

Went to Alinea about a month ago and these were my feelings on my last visit

I think this was my 7th time there.

The reservation process is ridiculous as is their policy of only seating multiples of 2. Last night, I was sitting next to the table on a previous night, i had sat at with two other people. For some reason, they now made this a two top. I had made the reservation months prior and explained my situation and asked them if they could accommodate three people.. They said they could, however, we would have to pay for 4 people regardless of the fact that there would only be three diners. I also called multiple times during the snowstorm to say i was going to be late and never heard back from anyone.

It gets less and less impressive each time I go. In the beginning it was 32 courses and it was fairly amazing. Lots of techniques of frozen and dehydrated things were repeated. It definitely feels a lot less special and more of a machine at this point. I was taking a friend who was going for the first time and they didn't even hold us off until people had exited the dining room. I remember thinking how cool the entrance was with the rabbit hole. However, it was completely lost as it was obvious there was a sliding door on the side of the hallway.

Wine is something like 24 dollars a glass. I usually come away impressed with the more "simple" menu items. last time, my favorite dish was a recreation of an Escoffier Dish. This time, their homemade creme fraiche stood out. It's a show and an experience that I believe everyone into food should experience.

i would not have been upset if it weren't for the lack of customer service in accommodating my reservation of three, or a simple phone call in response to my countless attempts to contact the restaurant in order to be a considerate guest.

I am not so sure I am coming back anytime soon. This last experience really made me feel less than appreciated

Daniel wrote:Went to Alinea about a month ago and these were my feelings on my last visit

I think this was my 7th time there.

The reservation process is ridiculous as is their policy of only seating multiples of 2. Last night, I was sitting next to the table on a previous night, i had sat at with two other people. For some reason, they now made this a two top. I had made the reservation months prior and explained my situation and asked them if they could accommodate three people.. They said they could, however, we would have to pay for 4 people regardless of the fact that there would only be three diners. I also called multiple times during the snowstorm to say i was going to be late and never heard back from anyone.

It gets less and less impressive each time I go. In the beginning it was 32 courses and it was fairly amazing. Lots of techniques of frozen and dehydrated things were repeated. It definitely feels a lot less special and more of a machine at this point. I was taking a friend who was going for the first time and they didn't even hold us off until people had exited the dining room. I remember thinking how cool the entrance was with the rabbit hole. However, it was completely lost as it was obvious there was a sliding door on the side of the hallway.

Wine is something like 24 dollars a glass. I usually come away impressed with the more "simple" menu items. last time, my favorite dish was a recreation of an Escoffier Dish. This time, their homemade creme fraiche stood out. It's a show and an experience that I believe everyone into food should experience.

i would not have been upset if it weren't for the lack of customer service in accommodating my reservation of three, or a simple phone call in response to my countless attempts to contact the restaurant in order to be a considerate guest.

I am not so sure I am coming back anytime soon. This last experience really made me feel less than appreciated

Sometimes the restaurant will turn a table physically meant for four people into a table for two if a four-top goes unsold for a same-day reservation, and there is a party of two interested in coming in for dinner. I know this because they have done this for me personally.

No matter how hard you try, repeat visits to Alinea are never going to compare to the first time to walk through that hallway, the first time you're brought the helium apple balloon, or the first time Chef Achatz appears to prepare dessert on your table. The first time I went I knew almost nothing about the restaurant or what we in for. We had the 5:30 reservation, so our courses were the first of the evening, and everything was a wonderful surprise. I would love to experience THAT exact visit again, but it's never going to happen.

But I've been back, and have had exceptional meals since that I've enjoyed for different reasons. Last year the black truffle explosion was still excellent, but it was the halibut with mole that I wanted to go back for more. And I enjoyed the duck 86 from last summer more than the lamb 86 from two years ago. So while some of the "wow" factor was gone, I felt on subsequent visits I was able to enjoy and appreciate the actual cuisine more.

And I thought they succeeded in changing up the menu: I dined 11 months apart (early Aug '12, late 'June 13). The menu went from 19 courses to 14 (although in the first dinner 4 early seafood courses came out at once, so the difference in the number of presentations wasn't as drastic). There were 4 exact repeats (h/c potato, truffle, balloon, ginger) and two very similar courses: duck in lieu of lamb 86 and a small change in the final table dessert. Everything else was different. Frankly, I think that's perfect - the "greatest hits" were present but there were more new courses than old.

I'm itching to go back, but we have no immediate plans. We have a couple of friends that want to go for the first time and it would be great to dine with them and witness them experience Alinea for the first time.

(edit: thanks for the typo catch, nsxtasy).

`d

ReddiWhipSmart wrote:No matter how hard you try, repeat visits to Alinea are never going to compare to the first time to walk through that hallway, the first time you're brought the helium apple balloon, or the first time Chef Achatz appears to prepare dessert on your table. The first time I went I knew almost nothing about the restaurant or what we in for. We had the 5:30 reservation, so our courses were the first of the evening, and everything was a wonderful surprise. I would love to experience THAT exact visit again, but it's never going to happen.

But I've been back, and have had exceptional meals since that I've enjoyed for different reasons. Last year the black truffle explosion was still excellent, but it was the halibut with mole that I wanted to go back for more. And I enjoyed the duck 86 from last summer more than the lamb 86 from two years ago. So while some of the "wow" factor was gone, I felt on subsequent visits I was able to enjoy and appreciate the actual cuisine more.

And I thought they succeeded in changing up the menu: I dined 11 months apart (early Aug '12, late 'June 13). The menu went from 19 courses to 14 (although in the first dinner 4 early seafood courses came out at once, so the difference in the number of presentations wasn't as drastic). There were 4 exact repeats (h/c potato, truffle, balloon, ginger) and two very similar courses: duck in lieu of lamb 86 and a small change in the final table dessert. Everything else was different. Frankly, I think that's perfect - the "greatest hits" were present but there were more new courses than old.

I'm itching to go back, but we have no immediate plans. We have a couple of friends that want to go for the first time and it would be great to dine with them and witness them experience Alinea for the first time.

(edit: thanks for the typo catch, nsxtasy).

Your first paragraph summarizes how I feel/felt rather well. There really is nothing like your first visit there. It's actually ethereal. It's too perfect for this world. For a while I thought I wouldn't go back, and then I just couldn't help it. Now, five or six times in, I just can't quit that place.

My mother is my dining cohort/partner in crime, and she recently joked that we should go back on a whim...so that joke turned into a table. The most recent visit for me was October 2013. It was almost an entirely new menu for our most recent...we went last Sunday, the 5th. The classics of Alinea seem to now be hot potato/cold potato, black truffle explosion, duck 60, and ginger. I'm cool with that... they are good dishes. Past that, it was an entirely new menu.

We were bumped and got an incredible extra prawn course that was to be eaten with hands only. Hands down some of the best seafood I've ever eaten. Fried all the way through. Saffron butter and had a jamon iberico sauce.

This restaurant is very much Mike Bagale's Alinea in addition to staying Grant Achatz's Alinea. The courses are less, but the food is more substantial than before. While I'll never repeat the incredible, emotional roller coaster twenty six course I had the first time, it's still an incredible restaurant. One which I intend repeating a couple times a year or triannually, if possible.

Chef Bagale definitely has his influence, and it pervades through. I believe that this is the only way Alinea can continue moving forward as they mature. He has total ownership of the restaurant, and he deserves it. He is more "French Laundry" in his dishes than he is "elBulli", and I think it's working rather well. The flavors of our recent meals are totally classic.

I argue they've still got it. I love that place.

My second trip there was considerably better than my first, for whatever that's worth.

At any rate, I think there is a real complaint emerging (and mirrored in the discussion of Next) that has, unfortunately, to do largely with Kokonas' commodification of the previously personal elements to the Achatz endeavors.*

It is these personal touches that use to scream "luxury! and we value YOU, the customer, and we want to amaze you! no matter who you are" that are now disappearing. No doubt, for those with sufficient status to be deemed "bump-worthy" the experience is going to be better. But it is certainly not a good thing for the restaurant that nearly everyone knows it treats the 99.9 with preference to the 99. Most people that spend ~1k in advance for two to dine there, I imagine they do not want to see someone get an extra course while they themselves feel perhaps rushed and treated with indifference (at best?!).

All this said, last time I was there (1.5 years ago) it was wonderful.


* And not just the commodification, but the incessant public self-congratulation about this very commodification. He would be wise to create a social media account that he doesn't let plebeians follow.

I will add, though, that it is wise to wait between visits. Eight or Twelve weeks even is sometimes not enough for the menu to evolve.

Disagree certainly makes a good point about preferential treatment. I'm not sure that "indifference" is the right word for how most customers are treated, but routine is more appropriate. Of course preferential treatment occurs everywhere when you are "a friend of the house." If I know a curator at a museum I might get a special tour or some backstage knowledge. The difference is restaurants is that those courses are displayed in public, particularly when there is otherwise a set menu. And I must admit that at times I have been the beneficiary of this of this special treatment and at times I have been treated with professional routine. What has bothered me more than the extra courses is where the chef comes into the dining room and only talks with selected tables. I can see if you talk to one table that is acceptable because that can be a special friend, but if you visit half the tables, you should try to make sure that you visit all of the tables. I'm not making this claim particularly about Next/Alinea, but about restaurants in general.

As for Alinea, my first two dinners were glorious, astonishing, and transformative. But there are only so many new ideas that any chef has, especially as his attention is directed to other projects. The most recent dinner (a shorter menu, as is now the case) was very excellent, but not as startling. It was more like "Alinea cuisine." Further, some of the novel techniques that once were so amazing are now more common at high-end restaurants (in part because of the movement of Alinea-trained chefs to their own places). But Alinea is still the strongest restaurant in Chicago, especially for a first-time diner (perhaps L20, Goosefoot, and perhaps Grace are challenging Alinea), although I find Elizabeth more culinarily-intriguing at the moment at a better price-point.

Mystified as to how Goosefoot, with it's largely unchanging menu and bizarre overuse of truffle oil (blech!!) and edible flower garnish keeps coming up in the same conversation with these other places...even if you enjoyed the experience, I don't see how it can be considered comparable to places Grace and Alinea. Maybe I'm missing something.

I suppose that is why personal opinions are just that. We dined at Goosefoot the night before Alinea and both agreed the food at Goosefoot was superior and easily our best fine dining meal of 2013. My wife dislikes truffles and asked to leave them off and they were more than willing to accommodate.

I'd agree with GAF that Elizabeth was a more interesting meal as well, and the $85 price point on off nights is an insanely good value. That being said I don't think anyone has it nearly as polished and fine tuned as Alinea. It's an amazing food experience on all ends. They do have quite the competition though, especially when you consider cost. That being said, I'd pay more than the current $275 high end price of Alinea to experience what it was 5 years ago.

I also find the food at Goosefoot to overall be better tasting than the food at Alinea. Goosefoot does frustrate me with their snail's pace menu changes, but the food itself is as good, if not better, than anywhere in Chicago. Certainly not the whimsical experience of Alinea and service, while warmer, is not as polished as Alinea. Also agree that Elizabeth on weeknights is a great value, though prices have risen for the winter menu (but are still an excellent value). If the price was identical I'd definitely pick Alinea over Goosefoot or Elizabeth, but value wise I think Goosefoot and Elizabeth are far superior options. I just dined at Grace last night and wow, that was one phenomenal all around experience. IMHO Grace has become Chicago's best restaurant - though I expect it to be a year or two before this becomes the general consensus (and there remains the possibility Alinea breaks out of this rut and elevates once again).

Crazy all the press Alinea has been receiving over the crying baby! Nice to see Chef Achatz showing some humor in his last tweet about this.

How often does Alinea change its menu? Is it seasonal, montly, or by chef's whim?

toria wrote:How often does Alinea change its menu? Is it seasonal, montly, or by chef's whim?

In my experience, very infrequently these days; I dined there in December of 2012 and again in November of 2013 and two thirds of the menu was either the same or just tweaked. They also have slowly been cutting the number of courses - so the repetitions are more prominent. I do not mind less overall courses if there is substantial differences across visits, but don't cut the number of courses at the same time you are becoming slow to introduce new menu items. Hopefully as Chef Bagale settles in he will ramp up the pace of updating the menu and Chef Achatz will refocus on making Alinea a world class restaurant and spend less time working on new projects.

I am really shocked with the amount of unsold tables at Alinea in coming weeks. I know winter is generally relatively slow even for the likes of Alinea, but I do not remember anywhere near this large a number of unsold tables last year. For example there are 38 seats still for sale for this Thursday on their website (and quite possibly another table or two that was held back for same/next night sales). Even weekends are not selling out in advance; there are six two-tops for sale for this Friday, a couple tables for this Saturday and a whopping 38 seats for this Sunday. Some of these tables are even at prime time slots. I thought tickets sales at Next were slow, but Alinea is even slower!

Gonzo70 wrote:I am really shocked with the amount of unsold tables at Alinea in coming weeks. I know winter is generally relatively slow even for the likes of Alinea, but I do not remember anywhere near this large a number of unsold tables last year. For example there are 38 seats still for sale for this Thursday on their website (and quite possibly another table or two that was held back for same/next night sales). Even weekends are not selling out in advance; there are six two-tops for sale for this Friday, a couple tables for this Saturday and a whopping 38 seats for this Sunday. Some of these tables are even at prime time slots. I thought tickets sales at Next were slow, but Alinea is even slower!

This kind of post is probably not what they were thinking of when they moved to the ticketing system.
Since they talked about how the profit goes out the window when one table does not show up for a meal
as a reason to switch to tickets this must be tough on the bottom line?

Granted, they have the knowledge of the empty table
prior to service and can order less supplies but I doubt they send paid staff home early?

Interesting...

(from Kokonas on Facebook)

Super Bowl Dynamic Pricing Special @Alinea $165 pp. !! Check our Facebook page for details.

Damn, if I was in the city I'd consider going back for that price even if they didn't change up the menu. Seems like it has been a slow month for a few of the tasting menu restaurants. I saw recently that Elizabeth had tickets for $60 pp, which would be a no brainer if (again) I lived in the city. I can't think of a worse date than super bowl Sunday for a restaurant like Alinea. Two weeks from Valentines Day, bitter cold (usually), not much tourism traffic. Cool to see them reflecting that in the price.

I totally would be going if I hadn't already made plans for another restaurant. That's an excellent deal.

Ended up dining there last night. From the previous discussions on this board regarding repeat courses from prior visits, there were 4 out of 12 courses that were repeated last night. Hot potato/cold potato, duck 86, tempura on a cinnamon stick (pumpkin) and green apple balloon. I saw some tables were getting the ginger course. Surprisingly no black truffle explosion which I've had every visit.

It was a another great meal there with wagyu with charred parsnip and orange chicken sweetbreads being highlights.

jawbox wrote:I have a pair of tickets for this Saturday, February 8th. Willing to sell for less than face value. PM if you are interested.

I will delete post when sold/date passes

Have you posted on Alinea's Facebook page? That is generally the best place to receive responses. Be sure to specify the dining time. Good luck finding a buyer.

My lovely wife treated me to my first dinner at Alinea last week. The menu has changed quite considerably since Ronnie's photos



We were sat under some rhubarb


Char Roe banana, ginger, passion fruit

Tasted of banana pudding

Scallop citrus aroma, thirteen textures



Those who watched True Detective may be a little weary of the image below.
Salsify branch camouflage


There is a piece of dehydrated fruit that resembles beef jerky in the photo. Are you able to find it? Took us a minute as well. Alright, here you go:

While we took the time to explore these twigs, the table next to us just decided to start chewing on everything until something broke away.

Having viewed Ronnie's photos of his several meals at Alinea, I knew our Centerpiece was going to play a part at some point


Lobster curry, earl grey, grapefruit

A little taste of India here. The grapefruit is actually disguised at the roe you see on the plate.

How's that Centerpiece looking?


Ebi celtuce, caremlized miso, yuzu


Floral, clean, tasted of the sea (or maybe that was just the kelp).

At this point our Centerpiece was taken and prepared tableside



Wagyu parsnip, black trumpet, kombu

Quite the surprise to see that the logs in front of us had been a nori-wrapped piece of wagyu and some lovely parsnip. Truly blown away by this dish.

Lily Bulb rambutan, distillation of caviar lime

Looks like onions...or garlic cloves...but assured these were lily bulbs. This was our palate cleanser.

Rhubarb celery root, celery branch, licorice

I missed my action shot, but this is where the rhubarb was removed and shaved.

For our next course, we were told to set down newspaper on our table


Michigan Smelt three condiments, chips, parsley



Sweetbreads orange, ginko nut, mustard


Delicious sweetbreads disguised as orange chicken. cinammon sticks with the ends slightly singed served as chopsticks as well as aromatic

Hot Potato cold potato, black truffle, butter

Every worry that this dish would end up overhyped were whisked away the second it touched my lips.

Wood Ear pig ear, allium, black garlic


Sad to say, this was a bit disappointing to us. The pig ear, mushrooms, allium, etc. all lost to the overwhelming taste of that sauce. Made even more disappointing when we were told this would be our last savory course of the night.

Pistachio mascarpone, strawberry, black walnut

I may have been upset with the previous course, but this dish brought my spirits up quite nicely. Loved that lemon curd.

Kumquat pecan, eucalyptus, mace

Should have taken another photo that showed the pecan hiding behind the kumquat, but you can take my word for it.

Balloon helium, green apple

My wife having the time of her life...

Birthday Cake

Had I paid more attention to Ronnie's last set of photos, I might have suspected this was coming. But I hadn't, and I didn't, and I was very touched.

Milk Chocolate pate sucree, violet, hazelnut

Chef came by and prepared our final dessert for us. When we received our last savory course, I did have that worry that I would be one of those people who whinged about not being satiated by meal's end, but both my wife and I had to throw in the towel in the middle of this course.

An amazing way to begin a new year.

incite wrote:My lovely wife treated me to my first dinner at Alinea last week.

Great shots, Nick. So glad that you enjoyed it and thanks, for sharing. It's been nearly a year since my last visit and judging from your report, things seem to be changing rapidly over there. We went on what was essentially chef Bagale's first day at the helm. I need to get back asap.

=R=

incite wrote:
While we took the time to explore these twigs, the table next to us just decided to start chewing on everything until something broke away.

Always good to learn of a new dining strategy.

Carcosa?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oFbn7BDD4zg/T ... CN2864.JPG

Beverage pairing?

Nice to see some significant menu changes.