Trotter's questions

I'm dining at Charlie Trotter's on Friday with friends - three of us will be having the Vegetarian Menu and one will have the Grand Menu. I ate there a zillion years ago when I was too young to really appreciate it so my memories are pretty dim. Does anyone have any recent experiences they'd like to share? Also I have a few logistical questions to make sure I bring enough cash to cover my tab - I know the price of the vegetarian menu and the wine pairing, but what do cocktails run in the bar if I decide to have one before dinner (or is this not recommended as, along with the wine pairing, I'll likely have to be carried out). Do they have a dessert menu? If yes, what are some of the dessert options they have had in the past? What is the potential price range of desserts? Also, I see that there is a standard 18% gratuity added to the dining check - for those of you who have eaten there did you tip additionally? If so how much? I hope I'm not coming off as a cheapskate - my real concern is that I have enough cash on me to cover my bill without having to make a discrete run for an ATM.

I was there in Feburary and sadly, they have no bar.

But this was for my birthday and I didn't see the bill.

I'll be visiting CT tomorrow, so perhaps I will have posted on my meal before you go; however, I will be choosing the Grand Menu, and unless I can get my wife "to take one for the team," we will not have impressions of the Vegetarian menu.

It has been a few years since I was at CT, and while they do not have a "bar," they may or may not be able to prepare "cocktails." As a starter, you might try a Proseco, a Pimm's, or a Lillet - all apt summer drinks.

Desserts are included on both menus (the menus are on CT's website). As for tip, 18% is quite sufficient. Never feel embarrassed about what you consider a suitable tip. (In my opinion forcing a "tip" [To Insure Promptness] defeats the original purpose. It is rather like one of those "convenience charges" we are forced to endure (convenience for you, not for me).

If you are blown away, you might stick $20 into an envelope and send it back for the kitchen staff. That will make you friends for life.

Salut.

Physically, there is a bar. But no liquor was ever served at Trotters as far as I know. Wine is where it's at, and I believe he has said that cocktails desensitize the palate. These sorts of things are the reasons I am not often at CT. A fancy restaurant in Europe has cocktails, and a humidor.

Dessert "comes with" as at all the other set menu places.

It's been my experience at CT's when you order the Vegetarian Menu, the waiter will ask if you eat meat or fish - if you say yes - you will get 2 or 3 souped up courses.

Enjoy - it's a lovely experience for fine dining. The staff is the best part - you get to enjoy a fabulous meal and service with none of the snobbery one might expect at an establishment with a CT's price tag.

Tobermory wrote:I'm dining at Charlie Trotter's on Friday with friends - three of us will be having the Vegetarian Menu and one will have the Grand Menu.

FYI, Trotter's Vegetable Menu is not strictly vegetarian. The focus of the Vegetable Menu is, of course, non-meat, but there are accents, sauce bases etc. that would not be acceptable to a strict vegetarian.

If you are dining with a strict vegetarian you may wish to call Trotter's for additional information.

Dessert is included with all tasting dinners.

Enjoy,
Gary

GAF wrote:In my opinion forcing a "tip" [To Insure Promptness]

Incidentally, that's just a folk etymology. The word "tip" has roots as far back as 1610, and originally comes from the slang of thieves meaning "a small gift." Doesn't mean "To Insure Promptness" or "To Insure Prompt Service" (as I have also heard it.)

Here's what wikipedia says:

The Oxford English Dictionary states that it is derived from the English thieves' slang word tip, meaning “to pass from one to another”. The notion of a stock tip or racing tip is from the same slang.

Another possible source for this term is a concept from Judaism that it is a chiyuv (obligation) for a seller to "tip the scales" in favor of the customer. The Torah says, "Nosen lo girumov (Give to him a tip)." For example, if your customer has asked for three pounds of onions, you should measure out the three pounds plus one extra onion, tipping the scale in his favor [1].

Binko wrote:

GAF wrote:In my opinion forcing a "tip" [To Insure Promptness]

Incidentally, that's just a folk etymology. The word "tip" has roots as far back as 1610, and originally comes from the slang of thieves meaning "a small gift." Doesn't mean "To Insure Promptness" or "To Insure Prompt Service" (as I have also heard it.)

Yes, Binko, definitely a folk etymology, the t.i.p. thing, much like the one that circulates for the f-word.

gleam wrote:Here's what wikipedia says:

The Oxford English Dictionary states that it is derived from the English thieves' slang word tip, meaning “to pass from one to another”. The notion of a stock tip or racing tip is from the same slang.

Another possible source for this term is a concept from Judaism that it is a chiyuv (obligation) for a seller to "tip the scales" in favor of the customer. The Torah says, "Nosen lo girumov (Give to him a tip)." For example, if your customer has asked for three pounds of onions, you should measure out the three pounds plus one extra onion, tipping the scale in his favor [1].

The latter of these is a nice bit of cultural history but I seriously doubt it has any direct or even indirect relevance for the history of the word or concept in English. That the meaning of 'a little bit of money given to someone as a gift or reward' could very well involve semantic developments which in part arose in the context of thieves' jargon strikes me as quite reasonable and the root in question is attested elsewhere in Germanic. Clearly, tip in the sense of 'cause to slant' is related to tap 'to strike lightly'. One can imagine development of the term in question here involving the connexion of the notions of 'tip' and 'wink' (which are attested) and the giving of a warning, of a bit of information (also well attested and still current), of a little bit of something valuable.

But other possibilities exist, especially, it seems to me, in connexion with drinking terms which occur elsewhere in Germanic. Dutch and German words for tip 'small reward for service' clearly have this connexion (a little money for a drink, for 'partying', for after work) and I think the evidence, taken as a whole, points more in this direction, one which has, it seems, not been sufficiently noticed or appreciated in the relevant literature. The possibility of two separate lines of semantic development of homonyms (or at least very similar sounding words) crossing is also quite possible in this case. In any event, the development of this word may involve intra-Germanic borrowing (e.g. between Scandinavian and/or Low German or Dutch and English) to some degree but it doesn't seem to require invocation of influences from outside the language family. At least that's what I think... off the top of my head and the tip of my tongue.

Anyway, if the service is tip-top, tap the waiter on the arm or tip him the wink and call him over with the tip of your finger; then give him a nice tip. Maybe in turn -- if you're not too tipsy -- he'll top off your beer from the tap, before he himself goes off to tipple a bit.

Prosit!
Antonius

Yes, Binko, definitely a folk etymology, the t.i.p. thing, much like the one that circulates for the f-word.

Fix Or Repair Daily?

dont think i know the one for the "F" word..

Erik.

SushiGaijin wrote:

Yes, Binko, definitely a folk etymology, the t.i.p. thing, much like the one that circulates for the f-word.

Fix Or Repair Daily?

dont think i know the one for the "F" word..

Erik.

As I remember it from High School "Found On Road Dead"

The way I heard it was "F--ked On Raw Deal"

Found On Rubbish Dumps
Fix Or Repair Daily
Fails On Rainy Days
Fails On Race Day
Found On Roadside Dead
Failure Of Research & Development
Found On Road Deserted
Fast Only Running Downhill
Factory Ordered Road Disaster
Factory Ordered Rebuilt Datsun
Flip Over Read Directions
Four Old Rusted Doors
Ford Owner Really Dumb
For Only Retarded Drivers
(French) - Fabrication Ordinare Reparation Dispendieuse
Ford Owners Recommend Datsun (Dodge)
Flipped Over Russian Dunebuggy
For Off Road Death
Fords Only Run Downhill
Fat Old Rusted Dog
Freaking Old Rusted Dodge (Datsun)
Forget Out Running Datsuns
For Old Retarded Drivers
Fucked On Race Day
Found On Rangi's Drive
First On Recycle Day