eat at your own risk

on one of the news programs last night i heard that both d'amatos and l.t.'s grill on grand have recently been shuttered by the dept of health for sanitary reasons. i'm sad to hear this cuz' i recently moved into the general neighborhood of both. i have enjoyed d'amatos baked goods, and was looking forward to checking out L.T.'s. I loved the n.n. smokehouse back in the day, but haven't been to larry's place on grand.

here's to hoping they both re-open soon.

http://cbs2chicago.com/eatrisk/local_st ... 93959.html

leesh

Hi,

These sanitary issues are so transitory, by the time someone reports them here the problems are usually resolved.

Evil Ronnie had an interesting take on this situation, which bears consideration.

Leesh - when they reopen, then please update this post.

Regards,

I agree and disagree with Cathy on this subject.

I have been in the food service business, and would like to add a comment. Rodent and insect infestations do not happen overnight. You might be able to remediate the problem in a couple of days, but the problem has been there a lot longer than a couple of days.

Evil Ronnie addresses the fact that most food prep and kitchen areas are ongoing violations, again I agree and disagree. He speaks of chicken being delivered during lunch, and dripping bloody water on the floor. I think I saw something recently that said that the percentage of chicken contaminated with Salmenala was climbing. which means you have to be even more careful than in the past.

In the past, I told my chilled food suppliers, not to deliver during lunch, or I would get a new supplier. Never had to change, and did not get deliveries while we were slammed.

Some of "less serious" violations shown on the TV news report, indicate to me a general attitude of sloppiness, and poor training. Even less serious violations can lead to outbreaks of a food born illness.

I know that most restaurants, etc, pass thier inspections without any problems, which goes to show that it is not that difficult to follow the law.

Note that the d'Amatos that was shut is the one at 1312, not the one with the coal oven next to Bari. It can be important to keep straight which of the three bakeries with similar names in a short stretch one is talking about.

Let me add my opinion to those above.

Sure, every place can do more to keep food clean and safe. Sure, insect and rodent infestations do not occur overnight. But they never are completely absent either, unless I misunderstand the FDA regulations that measure how much insect and rodent "materials" are acceptable in flour, for example, not whether any contamination is acceptable.

Epedemiologically-speaking, there is a chain of events necessary to end up with a salmonella outbreak, for instance. One starts with infected chicken, which then needs to sit out for a while to allow the bacteria to "bloom" to a sufficient level. Then the chicken needs to be undercooked, or other foods that will not be cooked enough to kill the bacteria need to be contaminated. There are different ways these things can string together, but the chain remains pretty constant.

As I understand the inspections and regulations, the goal is to eliminate every link in that chain. If any one is there, it is a violation, and needs to be corrected. But the presence of a violation does not mean there is a hazard to the customers, just that one of the conditions necessary to create a hazard is present. In some cases I am sure that a real hazard exists, but if the Health Department is doing a decent job (which I think they are) and eliminating every link in the chain when identified, that happens quite rarely.

At the end of the day, I think these two things are true, and they guide my reaction to these closings:

- A sufficiently agrressive inspector could find some violation in almost every place. While one can always do better, it is also very hard to be perfect in food handling at all times (and may even be counter-productive, at times, but I digress).
- Most actions do not represent direct hazards to diners, and I have no real way to know which do. If a place closes and is allowed to reopen, I trust the health department, as their bias is to be overly conservative in letting a place reopen. Their jobs, after all, are on the line.

So I really do not find much value in these posts about places being closed for violations, other than to know they will not be open if I wanted to eat there in the next couple of days. They do not indicate a higher, or lower, level of risk IMO.

dicksond wrote:So I really do not find much value in these posts about places being closed for violations, other than to know they will not be open if I wanted to eat there in the next couple of days. They do not indicate a higher, or lower, level of risk IMO.

Unless the closings happen to the same establishment with some frequency. That would give me pause.

sabersix wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but I wanted to go on a bit further about training.

No kidding, he used soap and washed and rinsed in less that five seconds. Yes he did what state law requires, he washed, but in five seconds, with water, all he did was spread the germs around his hands.

.

When I see that I always complain to the manager and put it on a comment card. I have walked out of a restaurant too.

Cathy2 wrote:when they reopen, then please update this post.

D'Amato's took care of their probs immediately and were not forced to close - no word on LT's yet, tho i look forward to when they re-open, since i've just moved into the n'hood, i'm looking forward to trying the food at Larry's current place.

So, just to get all this straight - is it the position of the lth mods that it's ok to post that a restaurant is closed - for the knowledge of others who might want to trek there, but not ok to post the reason why?

just wondering.

leesh

leesh wrote:So, just to get all this straight - is it the position of the lth mods that it's ok to post that a restaurant is closed - for the knowledge of others who might want to trek there, but not ok to post the reason why?

Not exactly. The moderators ask that if you are going to post about health code violations or closings, that you provide a published account.

I suppose this is as good of a place as any to publish that guideline from the posting guidelines:

Some types of posts have legal implications for you and the site. Please refrain from accusations of criminal activity, health code violations, or other wrongdoing. If your complaint is serious and provable, please take it to the proper authorities. Further, we find reports of restaurant and purveyor violations or closures, regardless of the circumstances, to be an area ripe for competitor abuse. We will remove these posts unless substantiated with a published source, e.g. a link to a quality published account.

You cal always look up city inspection records here:
http://w20.cityofchicago.org/health/sea ... ection.jsp

Best,
Michael