Coney Island Dogs

It's 11:45 am, and the thought of a coney island hot dog just entered my brain and made a direct signal to my stomach....the question is where to find one in Chicago.

There are a few decent renditions of chili dogs here, though they tend to be made with the same kind of chili you'd eat in a bowl, i.e., with beans. A true chili dog (a la Pink's) or a coney tends to be made with more of a chili slather, without any beans.

Any ideas in these parts?

You might want to give Lindy’s a try. For the last eighty-some years they’ve been dishing out their beanless chili as well as Coney dogs. In all my visits to Lindy’s I don’t think I ever tried the Coneys but I’m sure I’ve seen them. They’re quite small and come 2 or 3 to an order. Don’t know if they’ll be exactly what you’re after but the original Lindy’s is a pretty cool old place, certainly worth a visit if you haven’t been. I always enjoy sitting at the bar for a beer and a bowl (not spectacular chili but good enough). It’s a real shame they took down a classic piece of Chicago art that used to hang on the barroom wall: a photograph of the Chicago skyline with the disembodied head of Daley the First hovering over like a benevolent moon. By the way, I’d be interested to hear your other choices for chili dogs in Chicago. Coney dogs are sort of a Detroit specialty, right?

Lindy’s Chili
3689 S Archer Av
(a block east of Western)
Chicago
773-927-7807

There's a bar (can't remember the name) on the southwest corner of Broadway and Oakdale that's been there for two or three years which serves a very nice chili dog.

Hmm...I'm from northwest PA, and I've just realized that the reason I've never been able to find a "Greek dog" outside of that area is because they're called Coney dogs in other places.. The sauce in that Detroit link seems an awful lot like what we call Greek sauce.. Anyone know whether they're the same?

"There's a bar (can't remember the name) "

Avenues tavern. Their bar food is pretty good overall.

As for the Coney question, I've not seen a Papaya King type dog here in Chicago.

GardenofEatin wrote:Hmm...I'm from northwest PA, and I've just realized that the reason I've never been able to find a "Greek dog" outside of that area is because they're called Coney dogs in other places.. The sauce in that Detroit link seems an awful lot like what we call Greek sauce.. Anyone know whether they're the same?

I don't know about the PA dogs, but the Detroit-style Coney Island dog is topped with what I think of as Greek chili. The owners of these places are usually Greeks, and the sauce is a runny, beanless meat sauce laced with cinnamon, very similar to the chili served in Cincinnati chili parlors (where, I'll note, the mini dogs served alongside are called "coneys").

I can't comment on where you'd get one here. I grew up in Detroit, but I was never a fan of the style.

LAZ wrote:The owners of these places are usually Greeks

This may sound like a quibble, I learned last autumn these Greeks are more often than not Macedonians.

Regards,

I actually did a little research a few years ago for a documentary (it fell through, alas, because of funding issues). I hope to raise it from the comatose someday.

The idea was inspired when, travelling on other projects, I stumbled across Coney Island hot dog joints in L.A., Kalamazoo MI, Fort Wayne IN, Providence RI, Troy NY and other places. This was in addition to the wonderful chili dogs at James Coney Island in Houston, where my father took me as an infant when my baby teeth began to come in.

The commonalities: they all dated to the 1920s; they were all begun by Greek/Macedonian newcomers; they all used the same style stainless-steel gas-heated griddle to cook the dogs; they all featured a watery but tasty chili sauce.

My not-yet completely researched theory: the newcomers would've entered through Ellis Island before they fanned out across the country, and, while in NYC, discovered Nathan's on Coney Island (which similarly griddles the hot dogs). Moving on, they found these joints easy to open and run. Many of them, I know, either made their own dogs or had them specially made for them. Likewise, the buns. All made/make their own chili sauce.

Lord, I miss those dawgs . . . .

Anyway, you can mail order Castleberry's hot dog chili sauce, Wolf Brand hot dog chili sauce (Texas), and Skyline Chili (Cincinnati). Get a stainless-steel griddle (I have one for the stove and one for the gas grill), some premium hot dogs (casings are a must), fine-chop some sweet onions (Vidalia or Texas 1015), and you've pretty much got your own Coney Island operation.

Cheers,
Wade

Excellent post...thank you.

Your reference to Providence RI brings back a memory of my college days when we would drive to nearby Cranston and take up a booth every Sunday morning at a place called New York System weiners. There were (are) perhaps a half dozen of these liked-named places in RI, not really a franchise but rather a loose confederation of kindred operations, each featuring pretty small skin-on weiners, with nice searing and a bit of charing on diner's grill, and finished with a chili-ish sauce, mustard, and onions. We'd each be able to down about six to eight each for breakfast (maybe the equivalent to eating two-and-a-half Vienna size dogs).

Watching the counterman's preparation of the weiners was a highlight. He did them "up the arm"--whereby as many as 10 weiners were lined up on his forearm from his wrist to someplace north of his elbow but (thankfully) south of his armpit and given their dressing.

I haven't seen it recently in Chicago, but an outfit by the name of Ray's Chilli (notice the spelling difference) made an excellent canned "chilli dog sauce." I believe it's a downstate Illinois manufacturer.

Meanwhile, I gave Lindy's a try the other day (not having been there in years). It's pretty tired, the chili dog topping was good though. Really bad, however, was the dog underneath. I ended up just eating the chili, the bun and the onions.

Still searching.........

waderoberts wrote:I actually did a little research a few years ago for a documentary (it fell through, alas, because of funding issues). I hope to raise it from the comatose someday.

That’s very interesting. I hope you are able to get back to it.

Olde School wrote:Meanwhile, I gave Lindy's a try the other day (not having been there in years). It's pretty tired, the chili dog topping was good though. Really bad, however, was the dog underneath.

Sorry to hear that. But thanks for trying them and reporting back, you saved me the pain of trying them myself! I’m at a loss to think of any real Coney dog specialists in Chicago but I’m sure you can get a chili dog at Ramova Grill, Bridgeport’s time warp chili parlor (it dates from the 1920s and hasn’t changed much). Again, I have never eaten a hot dog there but I happen to enjoy their beanless Midwest-style chili. Just the other day there was a rather touching recommendation of Ramova.

I wonder if the closest place for an authentic Coney experience might be Milwaukee. I never visited Coney Island Restaurant but have long been intrigued by it. Can anyone offer a first hand report?

Ramova Grill
3510 S Halsted St
Chicago
773-847-9058

Coney Island Restaurant
530 W National Av
Milwaukee, WI 53202
414-672-5660

Skyline may not have the best dog nor the best chili sauce, but love the mountain of finely shredded cheese and the hot sauce is to die for.

Skyline originated in Cincinnati and prevalent in Ohio, but has not made it to Illinois. http://www.skylinechili.com

waderoberts wrote:My not-yet completely researched theory: the newcomers would've entered through Ellis Island before they fanned out across the country, and, while in NYC, discovered Nathan's on Coney Island (which similarly griddles the hot dogs). Moving on, they found these joints easy to open and run.

Has anyone else noticed how Greek restaurateurs seem to share ideas across the country much more than other ethnic groups?

Flaming saganaki started in Chicago in the late 1960s, and now there probably isn't a Greek place in the country that doesn't light cheese on fire. Gyros was introduced to the U.S. at the same time and is equally ubiquitous. All over the country, eerily similar Greek-run diners are serving a long menu of multi-ethnic fare that almost always includes "Athenian chicken," "Athenian skirt steak" and a (usually revolving) cake display.

Compare Italian beef, philly steaks or even Chinese food. (I've written before about how warr shu gai is a Detroit thing.)

Is there a Central Grecian Restaurant Supply?

I speculated on CH a long time ago that the Greek network of restaurateurs and, presumably, lending within the community functioned as a kind of franchise system communicating "what works" almost as effectively as a corporate fast food franchise does; if a new restaurant were to attempt to open without offering Athenian style chicken and Belgium waffles, without getting its menus done at one of the places that always do "our" menus, without following the Greek model in its various permutations, then it would find immediate disapproval from Uncle Stathis or whoever was fronting the cash, and not so subtle nudging back toward the standard model. I suspect that Greeks aren't the only community of whom that is true, either....

LAZ wrote: Gyros was introduced to the U.S. at the same time and is equally ubiquitous.

Is it not true that gyros (the ground mystery meat variety) are also a Chicago invention?

stevez wrote:

LAZ wrote: Gyros was introduced to the U.S. at the same time and is equally ubiquitous.

Is it not true that gyros (the ground mystery meat variety) are also a Chicago invention?

I believe that's right. The sad bit is that the ground meat variety has made inroads in Greece, and is starting to replace the real thing.

Olde School wrote:It's 11:45 am, and the thought of a coney island hot dog just entered my brain and made a direct signal to my stomach....the question is where to find one in Chicago.

Olde School,

Probably not exactly what you are looking for, but last year I took a friend, who lives in Detroit, to my current favorite hot dog stand, Herm's on Dempster. He considers chili mandatory on a hot dog and ate two of Herm's, then went back for a third.

His only comment on the chili dogs was "not bad for Chicago" Not exactly a rousing endorsement, but might be worth a go. If nothing else, the dogs are natural casing Vienna and the fries are skinny type, ask for them crisp, which I like.

Herm's used to have Barq's on tap but recently replaced it with a lesser root beer. Actually tap Barq's was one of the reasons Herm's was my favorite dog stand.

Enjoy,
Gary

Herm's Hot Dog Palace
3406 Dempster St
Skokie, IL 60076
847-673-9757

Gary,

I stopped at Herm's this past winter, and had a pair of chili dogs.

First of all, the Vienna dog, in my opinion, is all wrong. For a proper Coney dog, you do want a natural casing frankfurter, but not one with your typical Vienna flavor profile, which is too garlicky. Fat Jonnie's on Western, comes slightly closer with their David Berg dog, but still isn't there.

Next, the chili. I don't believe it was regulation Hormel, straight out of the can, but the concept of a coney dog smothered with kidney bean laden chili is all wrong to me.

And don't even start with the cheddar cheese, which may be ok in Cincinatti...

(Last month, I was in my home town, Norfolk, Va., and had seventeen chili dogs in two days, at Tony Jr's, on Lafayette Blvd.) Steamed bun, natural casing ten to one Hormel weiner, beanless cinnamon/clove scented thin chili, plentiful raw onion, and salad mustard. Perfection.

One last comment, don't even think about trying the rendition at the five way chili place on Broadway.

The only thing worse than beans in chili (which means that it can no longer be called chili), is beans in a hot dog chili sauce (beanie-weenies on a bun?!).

Cheers,
Wade

Evil Ronnie wrote:
ten to one Hormel weiner

Hormel makes a wiener??? How does that taste like?

Evil Ronnie wrote:but the concept of a coney dog smothered with kidney bean laden chili is all wrong to me.:

Evil,

It'd been a year or more since I had Herm's chili dog and my recollection was positive so, after reading your blistering account, off I went.

As I said in the thread earlier, I like Herm's, natural casing Vienna, steamed poppy seed bun, good quality accessories. I ordered two dogs, one my standard, mustard/onion/sport pepper and the other the same with the addition of chili. Soda and crisp fries rounded out lunch.

Ok, I agree, beans in the chili on a hot dog really doesn't cut it. The beans lend a starchy component that distracts both flavor and texture wise from the total package. Not sure I agree a natural casing Vienna is the wrong hot dog for the chili dog task, Vienna hot dogs too garlicky? Can't comment on the cheese as I had mine sans cheese.

Maybe you and I simply disagree on chili dogs, I'm not overly enamored with Fat Johnnies chili dog. Or, as is most likely the case, you are a true chili dog aficionado and are less tolerant of liberties taken with your platonic ideal, which is, obviously, Tony Jr's. 17-Chili Dogs in 2-days, wow, I'd hate to be the guy cleaning your septic tank.

Enjoy,
Gary

waderoberts wrote:The only thing worse than beans in chili (which means that it can no longer be called chili), is beans in a hot dog chili sauce (beanie-weenies on a bun?!).

Wade,

Ahhh, the easiest way to get a Texan in an argument, not that it's a difficult task, beans in chili.

Having grown up in Milwaukee which sported both Real Chili and Chili John's (of Green Bay, Wisconsin), neither of which a Texan would approve, I am guilty of any number of late night, after bar time, sins-against-chili. Beans being one of the less egregious.

I will agree, after my cold sober contemplative chili dog at Herm's yesterday, chili beans, as I said to Evil R, have no place on a hot dog.

Speaking of odd hot dog treatments. Here's a dog I had from Pastry House Hippo located in Mitsuwa last week. The picture does not really do it justice as the construct was so perfect as to be a display dog as opposed to something to eat. Frankly, it might have done better as display, the hot dog was not palate pleasing.

Pastry House Hippo Hot Dog


Enjoy,
Gary

Gary,

I can be quite liberal and accommodating of different interpretations of dishes, but as the saying goes: "You can take the boy out of Texas, but you can't take Texas out of the boy." Which means that I'm a pretty strict fundamentalist when it comes to chili con carne, adhering to the way it was prepared by San Antonio's famed Chili Queens in the late 1800s:

Finely cubed or coarsely ground beef and spices, cooked very thick. A little water, or maybe a small can of tomato paste (to 4 lbs. of beef) is permissible if it needs to be thinned a little.



I don't disparage others' additions, but the traditionalist in me would argue that any deviations means that the cook forfeits the right to call the dish "chili." Chiled stew, chiled soup, chiled sauce, maybe.

BTW: There is no succh thing as "turkey chili." Don't get me started on that . . . .

Cheers,
Wade

1). Believe me, you do not want to get into a Texas-sized discussion on what a true "chili" consists of based on experiences with the "chili" toppings on hot dogs. Two separate animals. Goats and sheep.

Ok, I agree, beans in the chili on a hot dog really doesn't cut it. The beans lend a starchy component that distracts both flavor and texture wise from the total package.

2). Let us not forget Pittsburgh's great Oakland Original hot dog which not only includes beans in its chili topping but also offers sauerkraut and melted cheese to those hearty individuals who want to stay up all night; although I suppose the citizens of a city that often stuffs its sandwiches full of french fries are going to be little concerned by the additional starch added to their dogs by a couple of kidney beans.

http://www.originalhotdogshop.com/main-800.htm

jbw,

I shouldv'e prefaced what now reads to me like a manifesto with:

IMHO -- In my humble opinion

for that is what it is.

I really don't begrudge any new takes on old things.

Being born and raised in Texas is, in some regards, like being subjected to brain-washing. One of my earliest memories is this: A first-grade public schoolteacher instructing the class (all natives): "There are two types of people in the world -- Texans and those who wish that they were." That should explain a lot about us.

I am a happy and proud to call Chicago home, and I can't see ever moving back. Some things, though, are hard to shake.

Mmm . . . goat and sheep . . . .

I may have to go back in a few days because of a family medical emergency. I'll post pix, including some from James Coney Island.

Cheers,
Wade

P.S. I admit to loving kraut dogs and slaw dogs.

Wade,

No regional bias intended. I just know how seriously Texans take their chili (as well they should!) particularly where beans and tomatoes are concerned, and I didn't want to precipitate a long debate over the real thing in a thread devoted to a humble hot dog topping.

As far as goats and sheep are concerned--I originally wanted "apples and oranges," but I did write, after all, that the two "chilis" were different kinds of animals . . .

I didn't intend to chime in with my affection for James Coney Island seeing as how few contributors to this board will have encountered such.
Their chili dogs were a favorite of my oma's. Nothing since compares, though during a stint in Ohio I learned to keep down Cincinnati chili as appears on the midget Gold Star dogs.

I make my chili with cubed chuck roast, dried chipotle, tomato paste(in order to bind and deepen the heaping helpings of dried chile peppers I roast), and, alas, on occasion, light red kidney beans.

. . . and watch for images from James Coney Island and elsewhere on the TX. Gulf Coast.

Cheers,
Wade