My little basil/herb garden

Hi all,

I have a small area on the side of my house where I decided to plant a few herbs. I ended up planting three Genovese basil plants, two purple, two Thai, two spicy globe. I've also got Italian Parsley, Cilantro and chives planted in the same area (which you can't really see)

I do have another area in my back yard where I have Greek oregano and several different types of thyme.

I'll certainly miss these plants over winter But after some discussion at another website, I think I may try and harvest some of the seeds to plant next year.

take care all,
dan

Keep in mind that your chives and thymes - all of them - will overwinter in the ground, and your oregano might, as well. You'll be quite pleased with how much the thymes spread, without becoming a nuisance; the different growth habits are fascinating.

sundevilpeg wrote:Keep in mind that your chives and thymes - all of them - will overwinter in the ground, and your oregano might, as well. You'll be quite pleased with how much the thymes spread, without becoming a nuisance; the different growth habits are fascinating.

Thanks for the advice. I'll be ecstatic if my thymes all make it!

Thanks,
dan

I haven't had luck with thyme lasting over the winter in the past, but beware that oregano can be invasive and take over large swatches.
Chives do very well around here -- I'm hoping my thyme and rosemary this year will last, perhaps I'll mulch them in. I don't think sage lasts, though, got to remember to dry some freeze others, it's one of the few crops doing very, very well this year.

Chives and oregano can be among the first edible green things in the spring too -- a couple fresh herb sprigs can really help when there's nothing local fresh around.

JoelF said:

Chives do very well around here -- I'm hoping my thyme and rosemary this year will last, perhaps I'll mulch them in. I don't think sage lasts, though, got to remember to dry some freeze others, it's one of the few crops doing very, very well this year.

I'd be very surprised if your rosemary makes it (depending on your location) and your sage doesn't. Rosemary really isn't designed to be winter-hardy in zone 5 or below. I was 50-50 on sage this year - the golden sage, which had been vandalized, didn't quite make it through, but the regular ye olde tyme-y sage thrived, and is now *huge* - it's not so much a plant as a thicket. I'm conflicted about its robustness, though. I really don't like sage very much at all.

I've never had a problem with thyme, seriously - I've even had lemon thyme (which seems to be tough as nails) make it through in a window box! - and mine is now on Year 3. I think the determining point with the success of all of the above (save rosemary) is the amount of snow cover, soil conditions, and quite possibly the location/microclimate. Good drainage of late rains (meaning just before the ground freezes) is key. The only mulch that any of my herbs got was the leaves from a a nearby tree, but that was evidently more than enough.

My rosemary has died each of the last four winters. I can't get the plant to survive the winter. Sage? No problem. My bush is six or seven years old now--getting a little too woody for my liking and I might need to start a new one. My thyme has been hit-and-miss, but it survived last year's winter. Chives are hardy little buggers--like mint, they seem impossible to kill. The chives in my garden have always been there. They must have first been planted twenty years ago or more. Dill, too. I don't plant it, it's just there every year, no matter what I do.

I don't mulch or do anything special to preserve any of the plants. If they live, they live, if not, I just buy a new bunch in the spring.

Drainage is the big problem for overwintering thyme in the Chicago area. Thyme hates freezing in water-logged soil. Mulch will not make any difference at best and may make the situation worse with poor drainage. The same applies to lavender. Winter thyme, aka German thyme, has better winter hardiness.

Common sage is much hardier (and has more intense flavor) than some of the fancier cultivars such as golden and variegated sage. Drainage is also an issue although nowhere near the extent with thyme and lavender.

Question: Will rosemary survive the winter in a pot in the garage (no light)?

There are many cultivars of rosemary with a wide range of winter hardiness. There seems to be a lot of work selecting for winter hardiness. The United States National Arboretum has had some success in selecting plants that can take DC winters. Some nurseries sell plants that can handle zone 6 and are even purported as surviving in zone 5 with winter cover. I have seen claims from some in the Pacific Northwest, but zone 5a in Oregon or Washington does not have the wild winter temperature fluctuations that are common in the Chicago area. Our winter kills often come from severe cold following warm, sunny spells in January and February. This pattern is why many of us provide some shading type covering and heavy mulching for roses, to keep the canes completely dormant.

Rosemary becomes pretty iffy with temperatures below 20-25 degrees F. Rosemary is also an evergreen shrub. Trying to keep that in a garage over winter sounds like a crap shoot against loaded dice.

My experience with rosemary, in bringing it inside over the winter, is that it develops a white film. My understanding is that this is a type of fungus referred to as powdery mildew. At that point, the best thing is to throw it away. From what I've read, rosemary needs plenty of air circulation. This year I have the plant sitting below a ceiling fan that I keep set to low.

mrsm wrote:My experience with rosemary, in bringing it inside over the winter, is that it develops a white film. My understanding is that this is a type of fungus referred to as powdery mildew. At that point, the best thing is to throw it away. From what I've read, rosemary needs plenty of air circulation. This year I have the plant sitting below a ceiling fan that I keep set to low.

Recent research shows that powdery mildew is easily defeated with milk! I can't remember the ratio, but think it might be a 1 part milk to 10 parts water. I haven't had any PM to fight (thankfully), so haven't tried it, but it would be a great organic solution for something like rosemary where you want to eat what you're treating. And, as already noted, good air circulation is very important to prevent it (and cool temps promote it).

Here's a link in case anyone needs to fight this annoying condition:
http://www.thefrugallife.com/mildew.html
or
http://www.sustainablefarmer.com/bblog/?p=132

Hi all,

I know that my rosemary won't make the winter...I'll see if my oregano or thyme will soon

I also started four types of basil from seed this year....yum!



dan

Well...all my oregano and thyme made it through winter and is growing quite well already this spring. Also popping up from last year is my parsley, cilantro and chives (although they were pretty thin...I already put down more seed)


I'm trying to grow my basil from seed this year and must say that they don't look that great. I'm growing four different varieties and some do look better than the others. But some of them are incredibly thin and leggy...they're even drooping on the ground. Maybe next year I'll just buy them again.

take care all,
dan

I've always grown regular basil from seed - though sometimes I get a few types as seedlings to round out my culinary collection. I think it's kind of early in the season for it - it doesn't like cold weather. If it gets through until warmer weather, it might be OK - you might consider covering it at night (a cut-off 2-liter bottle works, or even just a water bottle depending on how small your plant is.)

My thymes are struggling, but my oregano, lavendar, and chives came back well this year. My windowsill rosemary and thyme are pretty happy.

It is quite a bit early for basil as the tiniest bit of frost will kill it. You can start basil indoors this time of year an move it outside in mid-May. Remember our last frost date isn't until May 15th.

Parsley is a biennial; it will flower and set seed in year 2. It does quite well overwintering here and I've often dug out fresh parsley from under snow. If you don't mind a messy herb garden, you can let the seeds ripen and drop in your garden. It can be tough to get them to germinate but if you're lucky, you'll have a nice fresh crop in year 3.

I overwinter rosemary in a sunny window. My plant is quite large this year and happily flowered near the end of last year. Good circulation is important as is keeping the ambient temperature in a moderate range. Our house thermostat is set at 65 during the day which seems to help. I'll start hardening the plant back off next month and move it outside in late May. I've been snipping bits from it all winter.

Sage is a woody plant and you should be able to rejuvinate it by snipping back the heavier woody stems. It might need a complete overhaul after 5 or 6 years but I've got a plant that's been doing fine for close on 8 years.

I finally hit the right amount of oregano to harvest last year. I ran out of dried just about the time I've now got enough fresh to harvest.

Diannie wrote:Remember our last frost date isn't until May 15th.

AVERAGE last frost date. We still could get frost after that

I think that for those of us close to the lake, the average last frost date is a little earlier.

Thanks for the suggestions. I should have mentioned that the Basil plants that I started are inside. I'm to the point now where I'll bring them outside during the day...and in at night.

Maybe I'll do a bit more reading on starting basil from seed...and maybe they'll turn out fine. But a couple of the varieties (spicy globe and purple) just look way too leggy and are growing horizontal. The rest look pretty thick and healthy.

dunno???
dan

I've been over-wintering rosemary indoors for 4 years now. An earlier attempt to keep it alive outside by mulching failed twice, once in the second year, another time in the third year. The overwintered plants have not grown well, but I've read that they need re-potting on an annual basis, which I have done this season.

My oregano patch is a weed at this point that I can barely control.

If you have the space, buy or build a cold frame. I picked fresh parsley, marjoram and arugula thru the entire winter. most of the arugula eventually died, but one plant survived, and is now in its second flowering. I may try to over-winter basil this year. Will see if the plants will stand clipping down to fit into the cold frame.

I've had great luck direct-sowing Thai basil into my front (non-container) flower/herb/veg garden. IIRC, I held off on sowing until around the first of June, after the daffodils and tulips dad pooped out, and they did a great job of covering the unsightly dying foliage. The combo of good, warm soil and the plentiful rain we had last year provided a solid supply for the entire growing season, both for the usual uses in salads and in cooked Thai dishes, and for a sort of Asian pesto.** The plants that I allowed to flower were quite decorative, and big favorites of the bees. Just don't be tempted to sow yet! Patience is a virtue with hot-weather annuals.

Good luck!

**more of a pistou - no nuts, no cheese, though the addition of finely chopped macadamias or peanuts would be very tasty. Combine garlic, a couple of Thai or serrano chiles, basil, cilantro, and mint, some kosher salt, and a little bit of turbinado sugar in a processor; drizzle in peanut oil to make a loose paste. Great as a marinade for chicken or pork for grilling, as an addition to noodles (I'd add the chopped nuts for this use), or added to a meat/veg stir-fry; add a slug of fish sauce if you like it, as well as a squeeze of fresh lime juice. Freezes well; use small containers, and put a piece of plastic wrap directly on the surface of the mixture before sealing the container.

Dan,

Re your "leggy" basil, either basil was started indoors too early, or it didn't have enough sunlight. Next year try growing seedlings under an adjustable plant light. The light should be a few inches above the plants and as the plants get larger, you can adjust the height of the lamps taller.

I also direct sow in the garden in early April and that works well too. Hope that helps!

Asia