JenM wrote:

ViewsAskew wrote:Jen, I am almost positive that is much too much lime - I think it's 1/4 cup they recommend. Also, I don't think it will help...

ViewsAskew, thank you for the perspective. I will probably not add lime because I don't have time to find any! Moreover, I agree that the cure may be worse than the disease. Putting on my plant biologist hat, I found that current plant biology research agrees with you-- there is an interesting review article from the Annals of Botany (Ho and White, 2005, A Cellular Hypothesis for the Induction of Blossom-End Rot in Tomato Fruit). From the abstract: "It is suggested that current horticultural practices, such as the manipulation of the mineral composition of the feed or the growth environment, are not completely effective in reducing BER because they affect apoplastic Ca concentration in fruit tissue indirectly. Therefore, spraying Ca directly onto young fruits is recommended for the prevention of BER." The idea being that the important Calcium concentration is in the fruit itself. The review is free online, so I will give it a read (http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/571).

I may try spraying on some Ca-- I have a small amount of calcium supplement I use for my iguanas. Might be interesting-- I don't have enough fruits to do a controlled study, but it might at least make me feel like I'm doing something.

Speaking of varieties resistant to BER, do you save seeds from your tomatoes? I need to find a new heirloom-- I'm not sure I want to grow Brandywines again, this BER is such a bummer.

Cheers, Jen

I wish I could remember where I read the studies that showed spraying calcium on the tomatoes didn't help! Shoot. It makes sense that it would, but I swear I read two studies in the last month that both concluded that spraying didn't help. I'll see if I can find them....

I think you nailed it when you said "it might at least makes me feel like I'm doing something." Tyrus used the lime last year and thought it helped....but could it have simply gotten better at that time? We have no way to tell. BUT, it makes us feel better.

I have stopped growing brandywines because they are sooooo variable. My cousin is one of the directors of Garfield Farm and about ten years ago we were both growing them. He told me he hated them, they were a disaster. That year? I LOVED them, they were great, and I had good yields. The next year? I had the rotten yields. I decided I preferred something that likes me every year, not just some years, lol.

A few I've had great luck with include Black Prince, Odoriko, and I'll second the black cherry heirlooms. If you want a hybrid, the Sunsugars are unbelievably prolific. I grew Honey Bunch Grape this year - it is covered with hundreds of tomatoes; the flavor is good, definitely sweet, but the skin is thick. It reminds me of a small plum tomato, actually.

I am growing Momotaro for the first time this year (instead of my stand-by favorite Odoriko), and I am getting killed with BER. The Black Prince next to it has none. Next year I will be back to Odoriko for my pink variety. I have heard other people have had good luck with the other chestnut shouldered/black varieties, such as Black Krim. I may try one of them next year.

ViewsAskew wrote:...I swear I read two studies in the last month that both concluded that spraying didn't help...

I have read the same thing, but I also cannot remember where. The fruit is just not that permeable to allow uptake of salts. Also I suspect that the cool weather has not been helping. Cold today, hot tomorrow type weather is very hard on plants.

Next year I will try some new varieties-- I'm very interested in some of the black types. I very much appreciate everyone's suggestions for varieties-- I will hit the catalogs for some seeds, or maybe save some from my CSA box tomatoes.

Cheers, Jen

I just picked my first Black Prince for this year, but have not tasted them yet. They need another day or two to ripen I think. When I do, I'll let you know what I think. I haven't grown them in an EB yet, but when I grew them in ground in years past, they were in my top 3 of all time favorites.

Well, I didn't do anything and the Brandywines seem to be "growing out of" their blossom end rot. Thanks everyone for talking me out of doing something crazy!

We have been harvesting some gorgeous tomatoes for BLTs (really the finest use ever for a tomato in my view), and a lovely puttanesca sauce. The Earth Box tomatoes started a couple of weeks ahead of the in-ground tomatoes-- those are just starting to blush. Next year, more Earth Boxes!

Happy tomatoes everyone!

Jen

Jen, I'm glad you're getting some tomatoes and that the BER is going away. I wish I could say that same for my Momotaros. The BER just won't seem to stop! It's been over a month of me taking off every other tomato. Yeesh.

Now it looks like my Black Prince has some systemic problem. I'm losing leaves quickly to something that turns them dark and sort of damp. I didn't look too closely, just clipped them off.

If someone knows of an extension office in Chicago that is somewhat close to the near north, please let me know. The only thing I've heard of is Master Gardeners at Garfield Park Conservatory. That's a bit of a trip, but if that's the only place, I guess I'll make a trip out there this week.

Thankfully the okra is doing well, as is the chard, the beans, herbs, and the other tomato plant.

I'm having the same BER problem with my San Marzanos. All the other plants seem to be done with BER but 9 out of every 10 new fruit is affected with BER on the san marzano. It's getting so annoying i'm thinking of just ripping out the whole plant.

After a looonnnggg cool Summer here in Kansas City, we're *finally* starting to get tomatoes and chilis:




I'm thinking Thursday will be time to can some spaghetti sauce! Damn, we wait for this EVERY YEAR, but it takes sooo long to come, and it's over soooo quickly...

But yee-hah, we'll enjoy it whilst it's here!

Geo

It appears to be universal: Of the six tomatoes I've picked so far*, four have had Blossom End Rot, and the other two were badly split from the recent rains.

As usual, I overplanted, so I've already lost a couple of small plums to rot that I couldn't see from the edges of the garden. But I got the first yellow today (less a third from the bottom).

I've got two different plums, I think, one of them San Marzano. They're both wonderful. The yellow is absolutely fantastic.

Dinner tonight was two plums and the yellow diced, some basil and chives (including a couple late blossoms) also from the garden, some small fresh mozz balls from Whole Foods, croutons, olives, salt, pepper, olive oil and a bit of balsamic (probably didn't need the vinegar -- plenty of acid in these fruits.

With this cold summer (and too much shade on my veggies from tall wildflowers), I'm just hoping I get enough of the fruits before frost hits.


* not counting the green beefsteak I used for a fritata (recipe in Molto Italiano by Batali).

my plants were massive this year but have had nothing but green tomatos up until the last few days ..they are just now finally turning red.
Sad summer for tomatos (and Chicago)..ave had plenty of cucumbers, jalapenos, and serranos though

We're actually lucky compared to the East Coast. One of the large tomato growers inadvertently sold tomatoes infected with early blight (I think I'm remembering that correclty, but it could have been a different nasty systemic problem). At any rate, on the Earthbox forum there are people who've lost 10, 20, 30 or more plants in mid June! Talk about a bad season!

But, I've picked at least 50 grape tomatoes so far, about 10 Black Prince, and 1 Momotaro. I have at least 15 more Black Prince that should ripen before frost and another 100 grapes. I hope I'll get another 10-15 Momo's but am not holding my breath for the BER thing to have stopped (I've thrown away over 20 of them so far). I've also had chard, green beans and okra that is growing nicely. While I'd prefer a better tomato year, at least I had some and they sure tasted delicious.

I just planted lettuce and spinach indoors for a fall planting. I'll plant some choi sum and gai lan next week, I think. Maybe radishes in a couple weeks. If fall is like the spring, it will be good for all these things.

Next year we can hope for more warm weather and a better tomato season.

I can't complain too much. I grow all of my own tomatos from seed and probably have about 40 plants - all heirloom varieties. I have harvested about 20-30 lbs with more to come. But all my plants are suffering from various diseases. I can't tell exactly which ones. Fungal wilts of some sort I think. I think they are suffering from multiple problems exacerbated by wet early summer and too close plant spacing. Below is a link to a PowerPoint from UW Extension with some interesting pictures of tomato diseases. I was up at the Chicago Botanic Gardens this week and their tomato plants look perfect. Vigorous, no signs of disease at all. So it is possible. They might spray fungicides...probably grow disease resistant varieties too.

http://wihort.uwex.edu/fruitveggies/Dis ... omatoD.ppt

tyrus wrote:I'll keep posting on the yields as well, if anyone's interested...

I thought I would add an update on the garden this year. Well, like many other growers, I've had mixed luck, especially with tomatoes. All of the tomato plants show signs of disease and one box (two Kellogg's Breakfast tomatoes) has produced only a couple of edible fruits. Very disappointing. I've estimated that I've had about half of what I had last year in tomatoes. Peppers are still going well and taste fantastic (Sweet Chocolate are great). Beans are good, not prolific but enough for the family. Cucumbers are great - about 7 lbs so far (Diva is a great variety for those of us that don't have a lot of bees to pollinate). The lettuces and greens will be going in this weekend - direct seed for the fall. Oh, and the herbs are out of control. Here's a snapshot of the tomatoes:

-Tomatoes (total): 43.1 lbs
-Stupice: 19.35 lbs
-Black Cherry: 2.88 lbs
-Cherokee Purple: 6.24 lbs
-San Marzano: 12.27 lbs
-Kellogg's Breakfast: 2.32 lbs

Here's a picture of yesterday's "harvest." Clockwise from bottom: Black Cherry, Stupice, San Marzano (mini - one plant has given me tiny grape sized San Marzanos), San Marzano, Cherokee Purple.

its good to have a friend who is a farmer, so far this season, in exchange for some bbq, and some cold beers on my deck, he has given us:

3 dozen ears of sweet corn
2 dozen white onions
2 dozen cucumbers
1 dozen green peppers
2 dozen hot peppers
1 dozen tomatoes

I am now waiting for the angus beef samples to come my way..

ViewsAskew wrote:We're actually lucky compared to the East Coast....Next year we can hope for more warm weather and a better tomato season.

Yes, you are right, it is very bad here. I'm visiting family in Massachusetts and their entire harvest is wiped out this year. And these are the tomatoes that were "good" enough to actually pick, most are rotten on the vine. Very sad.



I agree-- let's hope for a better harvest next year.

Jen

I too, have been very disappointed this year. My Mom was always the gardener in my family. She was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer in June of 2008. Knowing that she only had about a year I decided that maybe having a small garden would be a way of keeping her close after she died(She died June 8th, the day after my birthday). I decided that Earth Boxes would be the way to go, and I’ve had a blast setting them up and watching them grow, well as much as they could this year. I was really hoping for a “bunpper “ crop but it just didn’t happen. My tomatoes were very limited, plus the disease on the leaves. I read that my pepper plants (anaheim, jalapeno, and cayenne) were to get two to three feet tall. That didn’t happen. In fact, if it hadn’t been for the elevation of the earth boxes, my Anaheim would have been sitting on the ground.
I’m thinking about trying some sugar snap peas in the next few days, with the cooler weather they should do very well, if I can find some seedlings. If not, there is always next year.

MikeW665, I love my Earthboxes.....but I think they are a bit deceiving. Well, the boxes are not deceiving, but the advertising is. It makes it sound like you just can't go wrong; just plant all those lovely veggies and soon you won't be able to eat it all and will be the favorite neighbor.

Tt's just not like that! In many ways, it is not any easier using those than growing in the ground. No matter where you grow, you still need a basic level of knowledge (or good luck) to make things work. I also am close to deciding that they are not as good for some things as they are for others. My Swiss Chard (can't remember what variety I grew this year), hated the boxes. It's just too damp for this variety. I moved them to a SWC that I water from the top, instead of the botom, and they took off. They need to dry out some. I also think that many soil less mixes that are available have too much peat in them and they stay toooooooo wet. Especially if you keep reuse the soil more than one season (when using a peat-based mix).

Then when you have a year like this year? It can be an awful experience! Peppers in a year like this is almost impossible; it's just not hot enough. This is the first year that every tomato plant I have eventually got something. One died quickly - maybe early blight. Three others have something systemic, but it's slow and I keep trimming it and they are still producing. Now two of these also have powdery mildew. The last one was struck with what looks like late blight. Boy, is it dying fast - the leaves just go brown and that's it.

I am fortunate that I at least got tomatoes off of 4 of the 5 plants. And, the grape tomatoes were quite prolific; I've picked close to 300. Too bad I've only picked about 12 Black Prince and maybe 8 or 9 Momotaros. The okra was my big surprise. I got it started late (lost my first plantings in the cold, wet June) and had to replant mid-June. But, they have done remarkably well for a plant that likes hot weather. They have had some mildew, but the Neem is keeping it under control. The second bright spot was the heirloom lettuce mix I bought. Having not grown it before it was very fun to do it.

Now that fall is here, I've planted radishes, spinach, lettuce, and some Asian greens. All have sprouted and are growing nicely. I'm always amazed at how fast radishes grow.

Here's to a great summer next year for growing delicious food.

ViewsAskew wrote:MikeW665, I love my Earthboxes.....but I think they are a bit deceiving. Well, the boxes are not deceiving, but the advertising is. It makes it sound like you just can't go wrong; just plant all those lovely veggies and soon you won't be able to eat it all and will be the favorite neighbor.

Tt's just not like that! In many ways, it is not any easier using those than growing in the ground.

Well, I thought I would add my $.02 here since I grow all of my vegetables out of the Earthbox. I have 12 boxes and have finished my 2nd year in these sub-irrigated planters. Those who know me, know that I'm a fan of this medium for a variety of reasons. I find that using the boxes has been pretty easy and give most of the credit to the EB website and instructions. It's only when you want to deviate from the "system," things can get a little confusing. I have strayed a bit from the EB "system" only because of the cost of their potting mix, dolomite, and fertilizer. I've never grown anything in any other method but have family members that have traditional gardens and we always compare notes. As I mentioned when I started this thread, I tracked my production to share. I agree that it was a bad year but I still had more food than our family of three could eat and I have a whole drawer on peppers and cucs in my fridge that I'm afraid I won't get to (I will be giving most of it away to neighbors/friends). I figured that I probably had twice as many tomatoes last year than I had this year. Here's what I had this year (figures are in lbs of produce, except where noted):

Box 1 (Arugula, 2 varieties of lettuce) - 12 oz of arugula, 4 lbs of lettuce
Box 2 (Broccoli / six plants- only three survived) - 1.7
Box 3 (Cucumbers, 3 plants) - 14.8
Box 4 (Swiss Chard, Batavian Endive) - Chard 2.1, Endive 2.5
Box 5 ("Green" Beans, 2 varieties/8 plants, late planting) - 2.4
Box 6 (Peppers - 4 sweet plants, 2 hot plants) - Sweet 10lbs, Hot 2.8
Box 7 (Zucchini, 3 plants) - 4.5
Box 8 (Tomatoes, Stupice 2 plants) - 22.1
Box 9 (Tomatoes, Cherokee Purple, 2 plants) - 8
Box 10 (Tomatoes, San Marzano, 2 plants) - 20.7
Box 11 (Tomatoes, Kellogg's Breakfast, 2 plants) - 2.6
Box 12 (Tomatoes, Black Cherry, 2 plants) - 10

This year's weather wasn't great and many of my plants succumbed to some sort of disease, especially the tomatoes. 60 lbs of tomatoes seems like a lot but for the four boxes of normal sized tomatoes, I expected around 100 lbs. Zucchini caught powdery mildew and had some pollination problems as well. Cucs (Diva variety) did well and we liked the variety quite a bit. Not all of my direct seed beans took and that figure should reflect 4 or 5 plants. I still have some peppers on the vine so those figures may increase. I also have a couple of cucs on the vine. The broccoli was a little disappointing since I tried a variety (Romanesco) that may not do too well in this environment, either that or I needed to start it way earlier.

Overall, I've been happy with the sub-irrigated planters / Earthboxes. They sit on my roof (no digging, mulching, etc), their "shower cap" prevents weeds, and the automatic watering system has given me very little to do this year except pick vegetables. They're also very clean and don't waste water. If anyone is interested in this medium for next year, PM me and I'd be happy to share more experiences (or follow the link to the blog below). Cheers.

Edited on 10/7 for the last harvest of peppers and cucs.

Mike, my condolences on your loss. It was a very tough year for gardening-- I am certainly chalking up a lot of my year as a "learning experience".

Tyrus, that is an amazing spread in yields from your tomato plants. Thanks for the data-- very interesting.

Cheers, Jen

ViewsAskew wrote:MikeW665, I love my Earthboxes.....but I think they are a bit deceiving. Well, the boxes are not deceiving, but the advertising is. It makes it sound like you just can't go wrong; just plant all those lovely veggies and soon you won't be able to eat it all and will be the favorite neighbor.

Tt's just not like that! In many ways, it is not any easier using those than growing in the ground. No matter where you grow, you still need a basic level of knowledge (or good luck) to make things work. I also am close to deciding that they are not as good for some things as they are for others. My Swiss Chard (can't remember what variety I grew this year), hated the boxes. It's just too damp for this variety. I moved them to a SWC that I water from the top, instead of the botom, and they took off. They need to dry out some. I also think that many soil less mixes that are available have too much peat in them and they stay toooooooo wet. Especially if you keep reuse the soil more than one season (when using a peat-based mix).

Then when you have a year like this year? It can be an awful experience! Peppers in a year like this is almost impossible; it's just not hot enough. This is the first year that every tomato plant I have eventually got something. One died quickly - maybe early blight. Three others have something systemic, but it's slow and I keep trimming it and they are still producing. Now two of these also have powdery mildew. The last one was struck with what looks like late blight. Boy, is it dying fast - the leaves just go brown and that's it.

I am fortunate that I at least got tomatoes off of 4 of the 5 plants. And, the grape tomatoes were quite prolific; I've picked close to 300. Too bad I've only picked about 12 Black Prince and maybe 8 or 9 Momotaros. The okra was my big surprise. I got it started late (lost my first plantings in the cold, wet June) and had to replant mid-June. But, they have done remarkably well for a plant that likes hot weather. They have had some mildew, but the Neem is keeping it under control. The second bright spot was the heirloom lettuce mix I bought. Having not grown it before it was very fun to do it.

Now that fall is here, I've planted radishes, spinach, lettuce, and some Asian greens. All have sprouted and are growing nicely. I'm always amazed at how fast radishes grow.

Here's to a great summer next year for growing delicious food.

I think the EB's are fantastic, the weather just didn't co-operate. I'll try again next year to see how things go.

I've been thinking about bringing my pepper EB into the house to see if it will keep growing or maybe grow better than outside. My kitchen faces due South so it would get a LOT of sun this winter. Any thoughts if this is a good or bad idea? I'm thinking I'd want to spray it down with some kind of insecticide just to keep the bugs from coming in the house. I grew a basil plant (that got a bit out of hand) in a regular window box that worked well.

I'm not that knowledgeable in this regard, but my initial thoughts are:

1. Would it be hot enough inside? Peppers like in in the 80's or 90's to produce well.
2. How are peppers pollinated? Not impossible in case you have to play pollinator, just know that you need to know about it before doing it.

I can't remember if I have this right, but I seem to remember that peppers do not have a short summer season in their native habitat and that they can grow for awhile (not sure how long, but longer than our 4 month summer). So, if that is true, that part would work out.

Peppers can be perennial in their native habitat but can have problems with stems becoming woody. Pollination is by insects, so indoor growing requires hand pollination. I share ViewsAskew's reservations about indoor temperatures unless one is using cultivars bred for greenhouse production. The hotter varieties of peppers normally need higher growing temperatures to develop full casaicin levels. The Dutch produce a lot of colored bell peppers in greenhouses, so cool-tolerant cultivars do exist.

A south-facing window can seem sunny in the winter, but the light intensity at noon in January is much less than filtered shade outdoors in July. The longer light path through the atmosphere, shorter days and incidence of cloudy days take a toll on total effective sunlight in December through February. I have a sun room with windows on three sides, the longest facing south, and with fluorescent lights above the windows as well as in a fixture hanging above a table. There is a world of difference between rosemary and lemon verbena grown on the table and the same potted plants out on the patio with direct sun for about 2/3 of the day. We shear off all the winter growth on the rosemary before taking it outside in the spring because the stems are weak with long distances between nodes and will have problems once better growth starts beyond the weak sections. One indication of insufficient light is reaching, where the plant produces long stems between nodes in an effort to allow the leaves to have enough light. I have overwintered geraniums on the south window sill in the sunroom. They bloom pretty well, but the foliage and blossom stems stretch and look rather different compared to the same plants and planter box outdoors the previous and subsequent summers.

Thanks for the info, even if it is a little disappointing. I just hate to see the plants die off before they produce a good crop. I wish I had the money to attach a heated green house to the side of my place.

My cherry tomato crop was a little disappointing this year also. Although not too much since I doubled the number of plants I grew last year. They didn't start to be edible until August and I remember we had been eating them a lot by August already. I think my plants got the same disease as JenM, but not until just recently so we were able to enjoy cherry tomatoes with our salads for a couple of months at least. Last year I still had green tomatoes on my plants at near the end of October. I gave them all to my carpenter who was working on our front porch at the time and liked to eat them with a little salt. But this season my plants are pretty much dead! I found a great box of baby spring mix ready made salad at the Fresh Farms in Niles for $2.99 for a huge box so we had great summer salads for a time. So now it's back to the store bought tomatoes with our salads.

I just couldn’t stand to see my peppers outside, when there is frost on the roofs and grass, so yesterday I brought the EB inside. It was a little messy but I managed. I know they might not do so well, but I just couldn’t watch them get killed off by the cold weather. I guess I’m just a big softie when it comes to my peppers.

My container chiles in our back courtyard are still chugging right along - new serranos and jalapenos growing bigger, and the habaneros ripening nicely. Inexplicable. There are approx. 40-50 chiles of these three varieties still out there, just doing their own thing, with no help from me at all.

CHILE MIRACLE!

ekreider wrote:Peppers can be perennial in their native habitat but can have problems with stems becoming woody. Pollination is by insects, so indoor growing requires hand pollination. I share ViewsAskew's reservations about indoor temperatures unless one is using cultivars bred for greenhouse production. The hotter varieties of peppers normally need higher growing temperatures to develop full casaicin levels. The Dutch produce a lot of colored bell peppers in greenhouses, so cool-tolerant cultivars do exist.

A south-facing window can seem sunny in the winter, but the light intensity at noon in January is much less than filtered shade outdoors in July. The longer light path through the atmosphere, shorter days and incidence of cloudy days take a toll on total effective sunlight in December through February. I have a sun room with windows on three sides, the longest facing south, and with fluorescent lights above the windows as well as in a fixture hanging above a table. There is a world of difference between rosemary and lemon verbena grown on the table and the same potted plants out on the patio with direct sun for about 2/3 of the day. We shear off all the winter growth on the rosemary before taking it outside in the spring because the stems are weak with long distances between nodes and will have problems once better growth starts beyond the weak sections. One indication of insufficient light is reaching, where the plant produces long stems between nodes in an effort to allow the leaves to have enough light. I have overwintered geraniums on the south window sill in the sunroom. They bloom pretty well, but the foliage and blossom stems stretch and look rather different compared to the same plants and planter box outdoors the previous and subsequent summers.

Well, there's nothing to do but to find a way,right Ekreider. Yeah those plants need to be plant in a place with proper temperature for them to live. I think a planter box can be a useful material to you. Just try to plant by the ideas you have in order to find ways.