You are brave putting out the tomatoes...I want to! But I just want to wait a teensy bit longer to be safe. I am a bit envious, at any rate, because the likelihood of a frost is about 15%...not very high. The odds are with you. I'm just a chicken, lol.

I found the attic vermiculite at Menard's - it's a HUGE bag. I finished making potting mix for everything - 2 EBs, 2 equivalents from Gardener's Supply, 2 self-watering smaller planters, 3 self watering hanging baskets, and a hanging plastic thingee with 12 holes - which are filled with lettuce seedlings.

Making the mix was a LOT of work. I've only made mix once or twice before and not on this scale. I went through 3.8 CF of compressed peat. It's the rehydration that is a bit time consuming. My hands will be black for days, I think. Well, not really, just the cuticles, lol, the rest is mostly off.

Next weekend, I'll be brave and plant the tomatoes, maybe the basil. I think I'll keep the okra in for another week past that, though.

More important than frost risk is cold temperatures that are above freezing. Basil, peppers, eggplant and okra can be severely damaged in the mid to upper thirties and do not like temperatures in the mid forties. Tomatoes can tolerate maybe five degrees less.

For those of us within two or three miles of Lake Michigan, we need to account for the cold lake breezes that are so common in April, May and early June. While we have very small frost risk after April 30 (less than one year in 10), planting very tender plants should wait a week or more beyond the dates for western DuPage County, for instance, even though the frost safe date there is later. Consider all those times when the temperature is in the eighties in western suburbs but fifties near the lake. They are great for peas, lettuce and spinach, though.

Plants raised inside (including greenhouses) need hardening before planting. Limited periods outdoors when the weather is warm enough will toughen the plants; wind helps produce stronger, less leggy stems. Direct sun within a hour of solar noon (roughly 1 pm thanks to DST) should be avoided at first until the leaves are able to resist sun scald. Scald from UV exposure is a particular problem because plants grown under lights or glass tend to have had little UV. Time to bring my plants back in from the patio and under the lights in the basement.

ekreider wrote:Plants raised inside (including greenhouses) need hardening before planting. Limited periods outdoors when the weather is warm enough will toughen the plants; wind helps produce stronger, less leggy stems.

There is so much I don't know about gardening.

"Hardening" makes perfect, intuitive sense but is not something I had considered doing with the still tender shoots poking up in my basement under grow lights. I will start giving these guys a few hours "in the yard" every day to get them used to life outdoors. Thanks for the tip.

Great points, ekreider.

Anything that you buy at a greenhouse or big box store has already been hardened. When you grow your own stuff, it's easy to think you just go out and plant them. But, as noted, many plants will freak out over the temperature changes, the wind, etc. Hardening helps them so they can tolerate being outside instead of in constant 72 degree calm weather.

And, also as noted, many things we grow are hot loving plants and cannot tolerate cold at all, so it's important to ask a few questions or, maybe even better, to do a little research. There are many great gardening books out there that can help and many good Websites.

Anyone who wants to start plants from scratch needs to know more than put seed in dirt, add water. It's a start, lol, but it will probably cause some heartache if you don't know things like the potting medium, the germination temp, what transplants well and what doesn't, how to harden, etc. I'll add some links to the thread about urban gardening.

ViewsAskew wrote: Anyone who wants to start plants from scratch needs to know more than put seed in dirt, add water.

Word!! I'm happy to report that the tomatoes are still alive and well, since it only got to the upper 40's here-- we are well inland from the lake. It looks like there is another cold snap coming though. Ah, Chicago weather.

Jen

Good news, indeed. My guys are fine, too....happily sitting under the grow lamp but mad because yours are outside and I won't let them home leave, yet.

Tyrus

What did you use for your vertical wood supports in your trellis system above?

I've got the horizontal 2x8s but I was wondering what you used for the uprights? 2x2s?

I'm building the same trellis system this weekend, and as an added bonus the 2x8s will allow me to mount the AWS pipe as well (simple staple gun should do the trick)

I've got my tomatoes / beans planted but I'm going to need to get the trellis done before they start really growing



I'm planning on stringing trellis netting across two uprights for the beans/peas.

trs23 wrote:Tyrus

What did you use for your vertical wood supports in your trellis system above?

I've got the horizontal 2x8s but I was wondering what you used for the uprights? 2x2s?

I used cedar - eight feet long 1x2's that I found at home depot for about $2.65 each.

TRS -

Very nice system!

You don't happen to live near Roscoe Village do you? That alley looks might familiar.

Good luck!,

Josh

loftyendeavors wrote:TRS -

Very nice system!

You don't happen to live near Roscoe Village do you? That alley looks might familiar.

Good luck!,

Josh

Thanks!

West of Horner park. -- We couldn't afford Roscoe Village when we purchased

You are brave putting out the tomatoes...I want to!

Tonight and tomorrow night's forecast are why one must err on the side of caution in planting tomatoes. The lows are predicted to be in the low-mid 40's, and the soil is so wet that any daytime waming will be minimal. Be glad and thankful if you held off on outdoor planting; your plants will be happy that you didn't jump the gun.

Indeed. Each year, for more than twenty years, I often look at other people's plants out before mine and am a bit envious. And, in many years, they suffer nothing. But, there is every once in awhile a weekend like this one, were the nights get cold enough to cause problems and I am grateful for my restraint.

I'm still envious of the plants that got a three week head start to mine in the 70-80% of years where it doesn't make a difference!

For those people who have a system for protecting their plants - Wall o Waters for example - not an issue. But, many of us do not have an easy way to protect them and, for me, I hate to waste a plant, especially when I am starting from seed.

I hope anyone who planted early either has a way to protect the plants or your plants weather the chill and damp without much if any negative effect.

I can't believe how fast these tomatos have taken off.

For example 5/7/09



And this morning 5/20/09



Thanks to Tyrus I stole his design for his trellis (not done yet --- I'm still adding more cross pieces)

trs23 wrote:I can't believe how fast these tomatos have taken off.

For example 5/7/09



And this morning 5/20/09



Thanks to Tyrus I stole his design for his trellis (not done yet --- I'm still adding more cross pieces)

Looks great. Just wait until late July when they're at the top of that trellis!

My tomatoes are doing great too-- we have a warm microclimate, so I wasn't particularly concerned about setting them out too early, but don't try that in the suburbs. I have some tomatoes in the Earthbox and some in the earth-- the former are already well ahead of the latter-- larger, darker green, and healthier looking. Next year more EBs-- I am already surveying the space. If all goes well, I can cancel my CSA and pump all that money into EBs.

Jen

trs23 wrote:I can't believe how fast these tomatos have taken off.

I grew vegetables in homemade earthboxes for a few years and then bought a house and put an in-ground garden in. I was really worried the first year I was growing in the ground because nothing seemed to be growing as fast. As the season progressed I realized that when the plants were in earthboxes they ran out of room to grow their root systems and spent more energy growing the vegetative part of the plants. Rapid growth early in the season may mean you could benefit from larger containers to get a larger root system. Ultimately I got a much higher yield out of my in-ground plants, even though they were not as tall. But if you are getting a good yield with current containers there is probably no reason to use larger containers.

The good news is I got plenty of great vegetables using both methods, I just reduced the number of plants I put in when I switched to in-ground. I spend a lot more time dealing with pests and weeds than I did when I was growing on my roof and miss being able to control my garden in the same way I could with earthboxes.

Plants are all in as of Tuesday 2PM. The started seeds were hit-or-miss.
Tomatillos were gangbusters: lots of leaves, thick stems.
Peppers were weak pathetic little things, the jalapenos better than the bells
San Marzano and Yellow tomatoes grew well, brandywine looked weak so I only planted one.
Basil was Ok -- but I only had about six or seven plants, considering how many seeds I started it was pretty sad.
Thyme disappeared after sprouting briefly. Very disappointed.
Cucumbers were very weird -- they've obviously been in the little pots too long (should have repotted several weeks ago, never got around to it), as they had itty bitty flowers all over them.
Also planted some gai lan (chinese broccoli).

Sorry it wasn't all positive on the started seeds. I swear by the Gardener's Supply APS units. Until I got those, I didn't have the right set up and wasn't at all consistent with seed starting. Since I got those, maybe 15 years ago, seed starting has been fun and a joy. I do have a little home made set up with grow lights that helps, but those containers sure are wonderful.

What they don't help with is plants that don't like to be transplanted, since you can't put peat pots in them...

I was trying to go on the cheap: bag of potting soil, CFL bulb in a clamp lamp, previously-used trays. It was also a bit of neglect -- I should have transplanted into bigger pots, as I said.

As it is, I planted on Tuesday, I went out to water them today at 1PM (having forgotten yesterday) and half of what I put in looked pretty darn dead. I may be heading for Meinke's or Pesches for more pepper plants, at the very least.

I transplanted my tomatoes this week and plan to finalize what goes where this weekend. I may need another SIP, as I have more things to grow than I have places to put those things! I planted lettuce in a hanging thingee - 14 lettuces hanging out of this circular plastic container. They look so cute! If I remember, I'll take a picture.

I forgot I'd planted some yu choy/choi sum in the lettuce patch. All the sudden I had yellow flowers in what I thought was lettuce. They are not quite as big as I want them to be before I eat them, but in another week they should be in a lovely dinner.

I have enough basil for ten gardens; guess I'll be giving much of it away. The chard is doing enh, the okra is still waiting for transplant, but one had a flower today! I hope it's warm enough for it to go out this weekend.

Just a quick update here with some pictures (I really like pics - it's an easy way to chart the progress). The weather had been good but we're due for a few bad days in a row here and I hope my tomatoes aren't affected too much. I was able to transplant some really nice tomato and pepper starts this past weekend. I still have to direct seen some zucchini, cucs, and beans but will wait until next weekend for that.

Overall garden:


Broccoli - doing great - Green Goliath and Romanesco (six total but it already looks cramped)


Lettuce - eating salads every day - Merveille de Quatre Saisons, Green Salad Bowl, Apollo Arugula


Close up of Stupice tomato (early variety - 58 days) - also planted Black Cherry, Kellogg's Breakfast, Cherokee Purple, and San Marzano


Rainbow Swiss Chard - sharing a box with Full Heart Batavian Endive (Escorole)

My goodness, you really have taken to this gardening quite well, haven't you? Everything looks wonderful and is about a month ahead of me. I am a bit cautious regarding planting dates and get envious when I see evidence that I could have planted earlier!!!!

Interesting, my chard just doesn't seem to be interested in growing quickly. It's just not really taking off. Seeing yours reminded me of how small mine is. Hmmmmm.

ViewsAskew wrote:My goodness, you really have taken to this gardening quite well, haven't you? Everything looks wonderful and is about a month ahead of me. I am a bit cautious regarding planting dates and get envious when I see evidence that I could have planted earlier!!!!

Interesting, my chard just doesn't seem to be interested in growing quickly. It's just not really taking off. Seeing yours reminded me of how small mine is. Hmmmmm.

I was a bit more cautious this year. Last year, I started everything on May 4th and had no problems. This year, I started the cold weather crops (lettuce, chard, escarole, broccoli) earlier and waited until the end of the month for the tomatoes and peppers. I use the ag extention growing charts as guides as they really don't have any info (or knowledge) of growing anything in sub-irrigated containers. The soil in the containers is much warmer than the soil in-ground (duing the day at least) - so I'm not sure if that has much to do with it but it may.

I also owe a great many thanks to BruceF for the high-quality starts. His plants were very healthy and were easy to transplant.

Having good starts surely is important. Whatever caused it, everything looks great.

I didn't move anything out, except lettuce, spinach and chard, until this last weekend....talk about cautious! And, I'm only a few miles from you, I think.

Although I wish the weather would warm up a little, the good news is that it's still good for my broccoli, lettuces, and greens. I finished my garden prep this weekend and things are looking pretty good. The green Goliath broccoli has started to head this week but the Romanesco is a little behind (it's a later variety). I started seeing little Santa Fe Peppers, though the plants are still small - same with an early fruiting tomato - Stupice. I set up an automatic watering system and it's working well. I also finished planting some beans (Empress and Red Swan), some cucumbers (Diva) and some Romanesco zucchini. I built a trellis for the cucs as well. Here are some pics:

Overall


Broccoli


Tomatoes


Peppers


Greens (Chard)

Just a weekly update. Since our weather hasn't been ideal, I didn't expect much out of the garden but I'm often surprised at the results. Things keep growing and now that it's warming up, I'm expecting this next week to be good for the garden. I planted beans, zucchini, and cucumbers about a week ago and I'm starting to see some little sprouts in about half of the spaces. The tomatoes are doing great and I retro-fitted an upgrade to the trellis system. I use a square wooden box staking system but I always liked the idea of a central stake to tie the tomatoes to. I fixed that yesterday and pretty happy with the results. I also cleaned up the AWS so that it's nicely contained. Now it's time to sit back and enjoy the bounty; although, my arugula has just bolted so I'm sure the lettuce is next. I'll be putting something else in there within two weeks. I think I'm about a week away from broccoli and I really can't wait to tear into it. Here are some pics:

Overall


Broccoli


Tomatoes (with trellis update)


Peppers (they're surprising me - I pull the first few flowers but it looks like I missed one)


Arugula bolting, rest of lettuce all good


Stupice close up

Gorgeous photos! My tomatoes are going gangbusters but no fruit, just flowers so far. The tomatoes in the Earth Box are huge-- probably because the soil gets warmer, plus all that water and fertilizer. My peppers are sitting and shivering, poor things. In retrospect, I should have waited on those, but hey-- this is my first year! I am calculating how many Earth Boxes I can get for the money I spend on my CSA-- conclusion, a LOT and I don't have to deal with things like kohlrabi.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Jen

I would kill to have a roof where I could plant and get unlimited sun. My tomatoes (green zebra, Mr. Stripey, Purple Cherokee, Old German, Brandywine) are starting to flower and I just pruned them back today.

The broccoli are huge but now flowers yet. My lettuces are harvestable and I should start eating them more regularly. My pepper box is starting to pick up, with the habaneros starting to come in. I put everything in at Memorial Day and I certainly think I could go a few weeks earlier next year.

I do, however, have enough parsley to last the rest of the summer !

tem wrote:I would kill to have a roof where I could plant and get unlimited sun. My tomatoes (green zebra, Mr. Stripey, Purple Cherokee, Old German, Brandywine) are starting to flower and I just pruned them back today.

The broccoli are huge but now flowers yet. My lettuces are harvestable and I should start eating them more regularly. My pepper box is starting to pick up, with the habaneros starting to come in. I put everything in at Memorial Day and I certainly think I could go a few weeks earlier next year.

I do, however, have enough parsley to last the rest of the summer !

I know how you feel about the roof and unlimited sun. Although we have a substantial area of our roof decked for entertaining, the garden is by far the most used aspect of the roof. It's very nice to have the full sun and the temps are always a bit warmer so the plants are really starting to take off. I look around at the other flat roofs and think the obvious - if people wanted to, they could all be growing high quality, organic (and local) vegetables on their roofs.

Good to hear that things are going well. For next year, you may want to start your broccoli and lettuces much earlier but leave the tomatoes and peppers until about Memorial Day. The peppers, especially love the heat. Keep us posted...

looking back, I actually planted everything on 9-10 May, a couple weeks earlier than last year so it's most likely the lack of full sun that inhibits my garden.

But, I'm sure I'll have a nice harvest.