Recent Italian: Bolognese and Undersalting?!

Recently I dined at two very good mid-priced Italian restaurants: Via Veneto on Lincoln, and the new Anna Maria Pasteria on Clark (on Montrose).

At Via Veneto, my husband and I went halfsies on a huge portion of gnocchi in a marinara sauce (good gnochi, underseasoned tomato sauce) and on a "bifteca vesuvio" - a nice twist on the classic Chicken vesuvio complete with those yummy roasted potatoes. The steak was perfectly medium rare with a boost of garlic and rosemary flavor.

At Anna Maria's, I had a standout bowl of tomato cream soup with scallops - so so good. The soup was not too tart nor too sweet, well-seasoned, and the scallops were perfectly done, tender, and subtle.

My pasta dish at AM's was Pollo Canneloni; it was OK, if underseasoned. (I love that Anna Maria's has homemade pasta, which is toothy and never mushy.) I was expecting some small pieces of chicken in the "roll," but it was ground chicken mixed with cheese (I think) in a creamy sauce (called balsamic, but I couldn't really detect it), with mushrooms.

My husband had old-school spaghetti and meatballs with bolognese sauce, but it was not a true bolognese - just a tomoto-y meat sauce.

Which brings me to my first question - which restaurants serve true bolognese? I've made bolognese at home (when I used to eat pork ) and seen it made on cooking shows, but I've rarely had a true bolognese at a restaurant. It's slow-cooked, creamy and meaty, with only a small amount of tomato and no discernible vegetables pieces as they all cook down. I wish restaurants would just say "tomato meat sauce" or something like that rather than tar the bolognese style.

And, next, what is with the underseasoning, especially the light hand on salt? It seems in the last few years, even at very fine restaurants, I'm reaching for my salt shaker. Have my tastes stayed the same but restaurants have changed? Anyone else notice this?

Via Veneto Il Ristorante
(773) 267-0888
6340 N Lincoln Ave
Chicago, IL 60659

Anna Maria Pasteria
(773) 506-2662
4400 N Clark St.
Chicago, IL

And, next, what is with the underseasoning, especially the light hand on salt? It seems in the last few years, even at very fine restaurants, I'm reaching for my salt shaker. Have my tastes stayed the same but restaurants have changed? Anyone else notice this?

You could throw this question all by itself and get quite a response.

I was at Little Three Happiness a few weeks ago. I ordered rice noodle with beef and it was tasteless. I inquired with the staff why was it short on the salt. It was brown-colored so they must have used a very low salt soy sauce or something else. They began to explain how Americans don't like salt. Yet my friend is Asian who has gone to this restaurant as long as Gary and possibly longer. They never asked us if we want the salt minimized.

In Highland Park, Country Kitchen a locally favored breakfast and lunch spot also under salts.

I am sure in both cases somebody kicked up a fuss. To satisfy that person, they provide underseasoned food to everyone else.

I think they would better serve us by listing on the menus 'low salt by request' instead of obligating every customer to the same experience. I really do want to eat the food as the cook intended us to have it. I just don't think that is what is coming to the table sometimes.

Now on the homefront, I do have a family member who blesses food with salt and pepper before it is even tasted. I have been known to hide these condiments when they are around to force them to taste first and MAYBE adjust later. More often than not, they leave things alone though they are back to their ritual on the next occasion.

Regards,

I had a great "real" bolongese at Angelina Ristorante at 3561 N. Broadway. It was my first "real" bolongese so I really have nothing to compare it to, but it was veal and pork chunks that had been slow-cooked and l really liked it.

First, I'm certain there are more erudite Italian food afficianados on this board, however, I offer that the canneloni stuffing I'm aquainted with is always pureed. As a child, my first foray beyond meatballs etc., was veal canneloni at Pino's in Houston. Great food memory.

Second, just last week I, too, was served curiously undersalted fare at Pizza D.O.C. Afterwards, my dining companions lamented the lack of salt and pepper shakers on the table. This NEVER happens.

The day's special appetizers and calamari made up for the rather bland pizza.

---and, I might as well throw in my partner's family's penchant for underseasoning their food in preparation for tableside salting...I'm learning to accomodate this quirk when cooking items for holiday dinners.

Regarding proper seasoning.. I'd guess it's one of the hardest things for a cook to learn. Certainly there are home cooks who blanched those green beans for the perfect amount of time, but they taste like nothing because they're so undersalted.

In my experience, the one thing that is almost always undersalted is soup. There are so few properly seasoned soups out there... and soup is usually one of the things that needs a hit of salt the most.

-ed

The sauce you had wasn't Balsamic, it Bechamella.

It's the Italian version of the better known (French) bechamel - butter, flour, milk, salt + pepper, nutmeg. Probably boosted in flavor with a little Parmigiano Reggiano...

Funny, as I often have one dish per meal that is so oversalted as to be almost inedible. I always chalk it up to the fact that many chefs smoke, and thus must have damaged tastebuds

Funny - I was on a cruise in March, and the food was sometimes over and sometimes under salted. So when I saw the exec. chef I mentioned it to him and the restaurant manager. They started laughing - 2 cruises back they had had a lot of complaints about oversalting. So the next cruise they cut back - a lot - and got complaints about undersalting. So on our cruise they were trying to moderate it, and got mixed results.

Besciamella was probably it.

Also, a pretty good indication that it is not going to be true ragu Bolognese is when it comes on spaghetti with meat balls. Stefani's used to have a stand-up version, great with the hand made pappardelle from the "secret menu." Alas, no more Stefani's.

In answer: Merlo, of course, but also Bruna's.

SteveZ: any word on what happened to Stefani's Mario, the mustachioed Milanese basso (my favorite server in Chicago), the Harvey Kietel waiter (looked, talked and acted just like him, in a good way), or the angry but hyper-competent female server who looked just like my cousin Barbi (you don't know my cousin, but trust me, she's a dead ringer)? In weather like this, I really miss the old stand-by.

A question on Ragu Bolognese - shouldn't it include chicken liver?
I remember making a version either from "The Romagnoli's Table" and/or a Bugialli book that did.

I also remember a Mario in Italy series episode where he said that the 'correct' way was legislated upon and the recipe was on a plaque that he stood next to. The recipe itself wasn't visible.
I note that Mario's version on Foodnetwork doesn't call for chicken liver.

I hope this isn't a issue of Vesuvian proportions. Thanks!

sazerac wrote:A question on Ragu Bolognese - shouldn't it include chicken liver?
I remember making a version either from "The Romagnoli's Table" and/or a Bugialli book that did.
I also remember a Mario in Italy series episode where he said that the 'correct' way was legislated upon and the recipe was on a plaque that he stood next to. The recipe itself wasn't visible.
I note that Mario's version on Foodnetwork doesn't call for chicken liver.
I hope this isn't a issue of Vesuvian proportions. Thanks!

sazerac:

Batali's recipes are often adapted (to varying degrees) to American tastes or variants are chosen which better conform to American expectations of Italian food; note his inclusion of garlic. Be that as it may, chicken livers are often included in ragù alla Bolognese but are not de rigueur an ingredient. Here are some fairly lengthy notes I wrote on this dish back last June:
Ragù alla Bolognese (link).

Antonius

Well, it is alot easier to add salt than remove it. With the amount of junk food and assorted fast food people eat, maybe it's the eater's taste buds that need to be re-educated and not the chef's.

While I would prefer to eat the meal the way the chef intended, in the grand scheme of restaurant irritations, I'd rather have to add salt than deal with cigar/cigarette smoke, screaming kids, overpowering perfume and loud cell phone talkers.

Possibly, more restaurants should take the Thai approach. How spicy would you like that? Or conversely, the eater should talk with the server, and explain that you are looking for something assertive/spicy/salty/etc....

The sauce you had wasn't Balsamic, it Bechamella.

Well, the menu said "balsamic cream sauce" so I have to take them at their word. It did taste a little sweet, but not discernibly balsamic.

I'm familiar with bechamel and the Italian equivalent (have made them myself on more than a few occasions ). This was probably a bechamel with a dash of balsamic vinegar. Definitely a chef-creation and not anything classically Italian. Anyhow it didn't do much for me; OK but not stellar.

I realize that spag. and meatballs would not traditionally be served with a ragu bolognese (kind of beside the point) but it prompted the conversation about who actually has a real ragu bolognese.

I remember having a decent ragu bolognese in London many years ago at a tiny ristorante in the Bloomsbury neighborhood. But not so much in Chicago.

While I would prefer to eat the meal the way the chef intended, in the grand scheme of restaurant irritations, I'd rather have to add salt than deal with cigar/cigarette smoke, screaming kids, overpowering perfume and loud cell phone talkers.

Totally agree with you there! I would not consider myself a big "salt" person, and rarely feel the need to add salt at restaurants (that's what chefs are for), so the fact that in a week, I ate at two pretty good restaurants where the food was underseasoned to my palate, I felt it worth asking if this was a trend...or just me?!

Thanks to everyone who posted responses!